Posted By JOHN_GATES on 06 Mar 2008 09:55 AM
If catia discontinues or changes the present APT output it would totally kill any chance of us getting V5 mfg. most of our 5 axis machines have a NIT box which runs on APT output the others I write the post myself in Postworks. Without APT output we would have to invest way to much in post processors to ever move over to V5.

 
Hi John, Just a word of assurance. CATIA will not discontinue or make any changes to the APT output.

with kind regards
Deepak Manuel
Dassault Systemes

The APT output has a higher calling in that it is the ONLY industry standard for NC and has been for 50 years.  APT is also a largely aerospace system and I would guess 90% (??) of the V5 users couldn't care less about APT.

Another comment to stirr the kettle a little, V5 MFG does not work like NCL, Surfcam, Mastercam, etc. Didn't before, doesn't now, and likey never will.  I remember starting to use multi axis flank and having problems.  Those problems pass as you learn and now I think I can make the cutter do anything I want far easier and faster than APT.  Unfortunately trying to make MAF work like NCL (or whatever system) or wishing V5 had macro/loop logic will lead to nothing but frustration and futility.  Adding macro/loop logic would be a major software re-write because V5 MFG does not function that way.  Think of a common statement like I=I+1, basic to programming languages, and what it would take to incorporate that into V5 MFG.  I don't like it, but I understand why they said NO! So if the need for macros is that important use NCL, won't hurt my feelings and I doubt DS will care either.  My thought would be for DS to buy out NCCS, incorporate the software, and move on.

There are some great ideas on this forum and Mark and I will make every effort through COE to document and follow up with DS every new idea.  But, be aware that some things (great ideas) will not be done or be put on the shelf for years.  Many of the recent enhancements have already been turned in. We need to focus on the best, most important (see my COE presentation in Orlando to see what that means) enhancements with first class documentation, examples, scenarios, workarounds, etc.  The code writers are not NC programmers so they don't understand.

If the PAC-MEN can get it done, super. We all benefit.

Jim

DPC Co-Chair

APT/AC

CADAM NC

NCMILL

MFGPROG

V5 MFG

ComputerVision (had some cool stuff)

Pro/Mfg (class only)

Notepad (for CNC subroutines)  

Jim, I have often wondered by DS didn't buy NCCS out like they did Solidworks.

All, I don't mean to whine about NCL wa! wa! wa!, I know V5 is a different tool, works in different ways and is fundamentally not compatable with the language based systems. I realize I will have to change my programming approach to comply with the available tools for better or worse, however if we don't ask for additional tools we will never get them.

I have found in the past with other software packages the tough part is making the developers realize that something would be valuable even if they don't understand why. Maybe DS is different but based on the posts I am seeing it dosen't seem so. But, what do I know I don't even use the system regularly.

John

Mark,  one of those hats will cost you $100.

John,  I think I said somewhere in here that one of the great failures of CAM systems in general was to ignore the basic strengths of APT - geometry updates and macro/loop capability.  If CATIA could fix those two things they could rule the world!!!!  Ha, Ha, Ha (evil laugh)

High speed machining melt-down process and concurrent design/manufacture very clearly show the basic 2 problems.  Both are tough with V5 today.  We need to convince DS that those type things are very important.

Jim

Hi all, my apologies for not entering data into the forum earlier. I wanted to let you know we will be hosting two, three hour sessions for users to speak about enhancement requests to Dassualt this week.  I will respond back shortly with login information and call in numbers. Thank you, Mark TenEyck, Dassault Systemes.

Cliff Johnson is in !

I work for IINCAT as a consultant specializing in V5 manufacturing and automation.

I have been using various CAD/CAM systems for 23 years

I have been using v5 for since R2

I support many companies, so I have an interesting perspective on programming using V5 in manufacturing.

I am also very interested in participating in the drive to have MFG enhanced. I am glad that DS has started showing some presence in this conversation. I am very busy, but if Dassault is going to listen to the PAC-MAN group, than I will find the time.

I see many areas that can be improved. After I review your list, I will bang out a my ideas, that are not already documented here.

The first Webinar will be Wednesday March 19, 2008  , 9am  PST

 If you missed the reply , look 2 replies up where Mark Teneyck, of Dassault Systems, is announcing the Webinar.

All PAC-MEN should have recieved and email with the Webinar info

It is not to late to join. Send me and e-mail, and I will sent to the Webinar info

I want to thank everyone for their patience.

I can only hope that the big wigs at Dassault, see us as a resource, for assisting in the betterment of V5 Manufacturing.

I hope that they can add enough developers, to expedite the enhancements.

If you can not attend because of short notice, I will get info to you somehow.

Dassault Systems, and the COE DPC chairs, will jointly drive this thing, so I like you will be a active contributer, and interested user.

Best Regards

Dave

I want to Welcome the following to the PAC-MEN group:

Cliff Johnson
Billy Pricer
Wichard
Simon
Pai
Mike

Thanks for taking the time.

Dave

Webinar  #2 will be Thursday March 20

What I hope to do tomorrow is to quickly go down the list in the preamble of the thread, and identify each item as to if it is an idea that need to:

 A> Have a newly submitted Enhancement Request,

 B> It is already submitted, awaiting deposition

 C> DS plans to implement

 D> DS rejected the ER

 E>  DS does not understand, needs more info

As mark said, there are new things. here.  For things that need to have a newly submitted Enhancement Request : Mark and James can give their best direction, on what is needed, as far as how to best write up the ER, as far as jpegs, files Catprocess, etc.

We need to assign an action Item to a person

So we need to have volunteers to create file where needed. So Mark and James need to identify what they can handle, and what they want help from the volunteers.

I volunteer to make a roughing test part, with drilling entry holes, and give specific details, on things that will speed up programming, help on Hard metal like titanium, and also improve machine cycle time.

Labeling ER's

We need to assign each item to a Major group, as Mark laid out.

Items already on the list of things Dassault has agreed to fix, we can move to an above the line area.

Lets talk about Items  already on the list but Dassault NOT has agreed to fix

I am talking about  things COE and / or / PAC-MAN has, DS rejected allready.  We can use both COE DPC annual meeting, and also Mark Teneyck's , KK, and Philippe Marecaux's connections to Patrick Touron., to try to discover why, and what we can do to We can help communicate the urgency, and advise on possible implementations.

My vision for the PAC-MAN group, is to compile a complete list of ALL ideas,

Each ER should have reasons why it will help.

once we have the complete list, individual PAC-MEN, can assign each ER with a priority.

Than I hope, that Dassault management will assign more developers.

This is the way IMHO, to make Catia the best programming software, as measured by the people that actually use the software to make parts. I want TOP TEN to go to TOP 35

After tomorrows Webinar, I will work with Mark and James to compile the list, broken into categories, that way you gents can set the priorities and sent the back

There is a lot of work to do. I see the need for detailed focus on each group. in the future. 

We will pick a few items to  focus on. We can do this thru e-mailing the group, and keep going until DS has all the information and files.

This is the Kickoff.

After Meeting #2 Thursday, the real work begins.

Krishna of Dassault Systems, asked me to post this on his behalf

In my opinion the Webinar with PACMEN should be focused on a plan rather than discussing individual issues and requirements.

Lets set up a process that everyone agrees with, such as:

1. Dave along with Mark create a list of requests by category and send it out to PACMEN
2. PACMEN members rate each of the requests in each category and send them back to Dave and Mark
3. Dave and Mark consolidate all the ratings and publish a list of the different categories and the prioritize the enhancements under them
4. DS/PACMEN set up another webinar where we discuss the ratings of the requests and request volunteers to detail the enhancement requests
5. Mark Teneyck and KK to take the list of requests along with PERs to DS R&D and get their feedback back to PACMEN

The more I work with the DPC chairs, the more I want to use COE as the avenue to be the conduit for submitting enhancements.

I do not want to fragment.

Dave,

    So, one can be a member of the forum and not of  "coe"?

How is it I became a member of the forum without paying $150?

To be a "Member of COE"  the fee is $150.

This is not a problem, Just want to be clear.

Some forum members think they are a COE member by being apart of the forum.

Regards,
Phil

anyone can post on the login.

being a member of coe, lets you

1. submit ER's and moniter them with the DPC (mark and james)

2. attend COE events, like the annual conference, which I am going, and each company should send 1 rep IMHO

3. download seminar info, after the ask the expert stuff

4. Pick up the phone and call Mark, and see if you Idea is new, or is allready submitted, and status. That way you don't waste time on writing up somthing already in.

I'm sure there is more.
I hope Mark or James can elaborate

Dave is correct, COE membership is not required to post to this forum.

The primary mission of the Development Planning Council (DPC) is to collect,  submit and track enhancement requests to DS development. By signing up for a COE membership you are entitled to submit enhancement requests through the COE website or through Jim Barkelew or myself directly. Feel free to contact either one of us if you'd like to know if your request has been previously submitted.

The DPC sessions at the annual conference are dedicated to enhancement request submission, DS status on those requests, and DS current and future strategy. The enhancement request process is an ongoing process throughout the year.

Attending the COE conference and workshops provide the member an experience unobtainable anywhere else in three days. As Steve Beach has mentioned in another posting, the conference offers opportunities to meet directly with DS development, to learn what other companies are doing with technology, to swap "war" stories with other users in your industry, to participate in training sessions, to learn the present and future strategies of the founding members Dassault and IBM, to learn about other technology offerings at the TechniFair, to participate in the Top Gun competition to see how your skills stack up against others, to learn and bring home new methodologies, and last but not least, to get involved and to participate in a working volunteer organization for users.

Check this website for more info: http://www.coe.org/Membership/MembershipCategories/tabid/267/Default.aspx

Hope to see you in Orlando.