Hi,
I am glad that DS has started showing some presence in this conversation. I would like to remind DS that MFG is the most important thing on this planet and without this I wouldn't be even posting this thread at all.

No matter how good your idea and design may be; it means nothing unless it is completed thru MFG in real life.

So far I like Catia for design and MFG but we need some serious improvements in tool-path commands. I think all the maintenance money is used up in the other modules and users like us don’t see much improvement in NC-Machining side. As a result people buy other cam software such as UG, Mastercam etc. Nowadays lots of nc-programming done in these systems and they tend to get better and better every year with new releases. It seems that those cam software people listen to their customers' suggestions and make productive changes to their software and end-users find it worth paying annual maintenance whereas a Catia nc-machining user has to wait almost forever for such changes.

I have seen new changes in R18 but at same the time it brought lots of regressions. Now I have problems with sweeping tool-path, contour driven ever since I updated from R17SP5. I ask DS if we are paying blindly in advance a yearly maintenance for getting all those headaches. I design less and produce more as nc-programmer. I can't tell my customers that I am having problems using some tool-paths which were good before and can't do machining using 90deg head unless I spend some fortune in post-processors and can't do thread-milling for hard materials unless I spend extra time in creating extra geometry or extra tool-paths (well in this case I am lucky that my post does thread-milling and multi pass helical circular milling for me and I don’t pay maintenance on my post and it cost me less than half of the ALC).

It seems that DS needs to expose their developers to real life machining environment once a year so they can have better ideas and grasp of how rapidly machining industry is changing. Or they can benefit from users like PAC-MEN with so many years of experience in various fields of MFG.
Thanks

It would be nice to address some of the limitations of Catia V5. I have been using Catia V5 for about one year, prior to that,20 years of NCL.

Dave Wareham

Calculated Engineering

Welcome Dave Wareham!!!

I appreciate you contributing your ideas, and time. 

Attention Everyone not on board yet:

We need a just a few more good men, and we will have enough, with the experience level of the PAC-MEN. Members average 25 years experience.

What do they say?.... If you didn't vote, don't bitch!!

Everyone start putting a few Ideas and desires together.

A one or two sentence will do.

Things will happen soon!!!

Dave

Thank you for your reply posts - Steve, Samarinder, PBARNA and Dave.

In two weeks time my manager has an appointment with the CEO of CATIA and I want to take this opportunity to introduce the PAC-MEN group to the Management team as well as the issues/concerns and requirements of the group.

Can I request all interested to make a post with their information (name, company, email id, work experience) as well as their concerns and requests - from which I can compile an introduction to PAC-MEN and present it to the management.

I like the post Steve has made, which I have copy/pasted below just as an example.

Steve - if you could elaborate a little more on the 'good stuff' from the 'language based' programs in terms of requirements - I would really appreciate it.

Thank you

KK

Krishna CHILUKURI SMB Sales Office: 818 585 0340 Mobile: 818 585 0340 Krishna.CHILUKURI@3ds.com Visit us at: www.3ds.com Dassault Syst. Americas Corp. - 6320 Canoga Avenue 3rd floor Trillium East Tower Building - WOODLANDS HILLS, CA 91367-2526, United States

Steve beach
I am the N/C Programming Supervisor at GKN Aerospace - Monitor Inc.
Located in Amityville, N.Y. on Long Island

This June, I'll be involved with NC Programming for 30 years......so I've sort of 'seen it all'
McAuto APT / Uniapt………....…15 yrs. (1978 - 1983)
NCCS - NCL …………………….10 yrs. (1983 - 2003)
Dassault Systemes CATIA-V5……5yrs. (2003 - ?? )

I've programmed parts on moth military an commercial projects

Military Programs:
A6 / C17 / F-5 / F-14 / F-15 / F-16 / F-18 / / Saab Gripen
F-22 / B-1 / JSF-F35

Commercial Programs:
A-320 / A-340 / A-380 / MD-11 / MD-80 / DC-9 / MD-95
CRJ / 717 / 737 / 747 / 757 / 767 / 777 / 787 /
Space Shuttle / RB-211 Nacelle / 787 Nacelle

I've cut aluminum, steel, stainless, and titanium.

The tool control we had with NCL was in my opinion second to NONE !
The macro and looping capabilities (and EASE of implementing) was elementary
The use of scalars and variables that could update your entire program was almost effortless.

Catia on the other hand, brings along an amazing 3-D environment, automatic routines that would be almost OMPSSIBLE to duplicate
using NCL or other 'language' based programs.

What we want now is the the 'good stuff' from the 'language based', brought to the Catia side.

Thanks for joining us KK.

Here's my info-

Roger Bombassei
Contract NC Programmer / CATIA NC Instructor - HEAT Program
33 years manufacturing experience
APT, NCL, UG, CATIA V4, V5.
Have worked at Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Rockwell, Northrop, Lockheed, GKN
Currently at GKN - Long Island
rbombassei@elcamino.edu
631 741 0835

Here's a couple enhancements I'd like.
The tool catalogs need to allow using the same holder for multiple tool assemblies.
I'd also like to see the Roughing routines check off of the tool holder.

I'd also like to find out more about Delmia machine simulation.

Im sure i can think of more but here is just a few. Ive attached a doc.

Don Javier
NC Programmer
Primus International - Walden's Division
918-836-6317 ext. 252
djavier@wmitulsa.com
12 years in manufacturing

Philip Barna

philipbarna@gmail.com
Currently: Tooling Design and NC Programmer 3-5 axis. Catia V5 r17 and 18.
Where: Arden Engineering Inc. Orange Ca. 714-998-6410
33yrs in the trade as.
Tool & Die Maker, CNC Programmer, College Instructor 23yrs NTMA/Santa Ana City.
MGM Station,  Aura Cad/Cam
GibbsCam,  Velum Cad, AutoCrap.
SolidWorks 98-2008, MasterCam 8,9,X2
NX3,4, and now "Catia".
Catia is new to me but have picked it up fast.
Mostly in the tooling design and programming of that tooling.
Built specialty Machines from Ground up to highly precision parts as toolmaker &
Programmed and Machined Aircraft/Space parts. (JB Tool Inc.)
Designed Bottles, Programmed and built Blow Molds.(Allen Mold)
Programmed and Machined Plastic Injection Molds. (Fairway Molds)
Even worked at JPL/NASA Programming and Machining various Space Projects.

    I must say that having worked in Solidworks for so long has helped me tremendously in Catia. On the design side of Catia, I only wish it worked as seamless as Solidworks. A lot of great features in Solidworks are not in Catia. So I stumble for time to time with the flow of my thoughts on to the screen. That’s my biggest beef with Catia is if they are owned by the same company why is it they just don't add these features (too many to list now) to Catia.
    NC Programming has been mostly in GibbsCam and Mastercam for me. Even thou I spent a small amount of time with NX3,4, I found that it was most cumbersome to work with. Boy I miss the simplicity of MasterCam and the Get-er-Done quickness it has to offer. Anyways, so far in Catia the NC side of things are different for me. Understanding the strategy, picking the geo and tooling options were straight forward. Getting the hang of those macros for tool entry and exit was a different story. I understand it now more and I am learning to catalog the ones I use most to retrieve them form time to time. Too many choices (LoL). The scripts will be fun. Looking forward to that. Post building is something I have enjoy in the past. Although not an expert in any way, I have always been able to get the job done. PPTables here need a fully, I said FULLY descriptive instruction Manual. I know that most of you have helped me in the past with this but I want to know what Dialog box cells in Catia are describable in the pptable and which one are not. And where is it exactly that the ones described in the help files come from in Catia dialog boxes. This hit n miss is for the birds. This is high end stuff? I would expect that from low end software where a full package is 10k not 45k on up.

   Ok, for the most part, I really enjoy Catia. Learning more and MORE each day. I think I am past that wall :light bulb comes on: in learning where things start to make sense.  I am a sponge at this point and just cannot get enough. I really want to nail this software and good. It has it all. Design, Assembly’s, Drafting and NC. Total control and I get to stay in one environment. If solidworks had a built in Cam from Dassault not 3^rd party,  I’d be there. The ease of use is wonderful but no cam. Catia is getting close to that. Little by little, bit by bit, picking away at it until it all makes sense.

  Thank you for inviting me to this group. I hope I can be an asset to everyone. I wish only the best for PAC-MEN and its mission. Been here before and saw features in new software versions that I helped with in the past. It’s a good feeling to be a part of that. It can happen. Perseverance, Stay focused on the goals that are set, and we will see something better. For ALL.

Philip Barna

Excellent Post Sam,

Sam, Can you Please e-mail me your contact information?

I am thinking the same things. After all the Catalogs and templates are set. After I build all the machines and control emulators. VB scripting is next on my schedule.

I am disappointed to hear that you already went down the path, and came up empty.

for all we know, it may be just around the corner.

That is one of the main points of PAC-MEN.

Create list, in one place. people can see the list, and say ditto to what is there, and only need to add to what is not there. This makes it courteous of the time , for those of us that contribute Ideas to PAC-MEN.

Attention all PAC-MEN

I place the Ideas you posted, up in the preamble. now up to 45

it is my intention, to get the status, of these items. They may be closer than we think on many.

I think in the initial webinar, that we review the status, and Vote from a scale 1-100, the importance of issues, and let Dassault developers and managers know why.

KK is a real go getter. If you missed it, look at his last post.

I can't believe that  two weeks his manager has an appointment with the CEO of CATIA and will introduce the PAC-MEN group to the Management team as well as the issues/concerns and requirements of the group. 

 Best Regards all

Dave

BFelsher on 2/25/2008 4:18:40 AM wrote in post above:  Because of this, I can't use a simple macro to globally change these values as I would like to do quickly and globally.  (One reason is video replay is much faster with a large step, so I like to program a large step, then make it smaller globally using the formula command to say .025 and 1 degree for a A on C knucklehead machine once I'm done programming)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, This reply is not related in any way to the actual thread heading, but since the above point was mentioned here, you can try this simple tip or workaround.

Create a user parameter of type Length called MDStep, and another user parameter of type Angle called called MDAngle. Use some large values. Link these to your values in the operations. Once you are done programming, change the values to actual tighter ones, and it would change the values globally in all multi axis flank contouring operations. 

Hope this helps..

with kind regards
Deepak Manuel
Dassault Systemes

Hi, I really don't think this post ought to be in this thread, it may seem kind of anti productive (my apologies in advance), but neverthless thought it might be something interesting to mention..

Think about this fact !!.  It is from a small survey that was done some time back.. 

Over 80% of CATIA V5 NC users are utilizing the product at under 50% of its potential because they are not "setup" properly and are working "inefficiently" or they are still doing things the "old way".

I have posted some of the questions from that survey in a new thread below..

Excerpts from a small survey on CATIA V5 NC usage..

with kind regards
Deepak Manuel

Welcome aboard Bryan Felsher!

You and Samarinder Singh, add a special perspective to the pac-men enhancement group, because you have shelled out your own dough, and staked you livelihoods on you abilities.

Others, like the department heads, stake their career reputations on recommending buying Catia, and adding more seats of Catia.  The managers of us expect results and we in turn, expect the software to improve.

Here is the good news:

   The regional Dassault Systems Sales Mgr. has informed me today, that authorization comes from the top to support our group.

 I know we are all busy, I myself have not had time to post for 2 weeks. But we all need to put our heads together to add to the list of enhancements.

To everyone else in cyberspace, if you wanted to communicate your ideas directly to Dassault Systems Software developers, now is the time. You can log in as your self, or James Doe, or e-mail me, or KK or Mark you Ideas, and we will take it from there. I am also getting just as many good ideas from the Lone Rangers.

    Our friends at DS have requested a brief summation of your career history if you choose to do so, just like the example Steve Beach set.  This punctuates the competence of the people of the pac-men group.  If you want to state how many people working under you, go ahead. But remember, you do not have to do this publicly.  Once we get 100 or so enhancements up, I am going to send everyone a spreadsheet with all the ER’s numbered with a on line description so that everyone can vote on a scale of 1 to 100 on how important each of the enhancement are to each user.

  Talk to your co-workers and try to get as many new ideas as you can.  

 Our contacts at DS will go through the list and get status as some of the things are already in the works for upcoming releases.  What I am hoping is that the DS developers will use us as a resource with the webinars to refine the functionality of the new implementations.   

Here my Brief Career Summation:

This June, I'll be involved with NC Programming for 31 years.
Compact II and TI 30 calculator……....… (1980 - 1982)
Machine Shop Supervision, part time programmer….. (1982- 1987)

NCCS - NCL ……………………………. (1987 - present)
Dassault Systems CATIA-V4………….. (1,500 hours)

Dassault Systems CATIA-V5………….. (2006 - present)
some collage classes on UG-NX, but.. not real tube time

Military Programs:
C5/ C130/ C17 /  F-15 / F-16 / F-18-C/D/   F-18-EF  / F-22 / B-1 /  B-2/  JSF-F35
As of 2 months ago….. the B-52, for you Dr. Strangelove fans

Commercial Programs:
A-330 / A-340 / A-380 / MD-11 / MD-80 / DC-9 / DC-8!/  DC-10
717 / 737 / 747 777 / 787 / 737 Bifurcation

Did someone mention Space Shuttle? 

Aluminum Lithium SLWT hydrogen tank panels for which I received the Silver Snoopy Award.

I've also cut aluminum, steel, stainless, titanium, copper, H-13, 300M, HP9420.

My main work since 1982, has been on structural aircraft parts; 3,4,5,6 axis,

 however, I have done the following:

* aircraft engine rotating hardware impellers, inducers, blisks, and other

*Amoco Container Co. an R&D bottle mold making facility, mfg 2 liter coke bottles, Seagrams, scope, Nyquil

*Burroughs Computers an O.E.M of Plasma information displays.  You know, the pinball 8888 score displays. And the GE1050 control display

* Automotive molds, like car spoilers.

Using Vericut since 1990, build machine and control files.

Built postprocessors with Pworks, and now using ICAM, for 65

different machines.for Catia V5, V4, UGNX2, and NCL,

Yes I also agree that the tool control we had with NCL was in my opinion, second to NONE !

I will put forth my hopes for what DS can slurp out of NCL and give us access to be discussed in the webinars.

Deepak said:

Hi, I really don't think this post ought to be in this thread, it may seem kind of anti productive (my apologies in advance), but neverthless thought it might be something interesting to mention..

Think about this fact !!.  It is from a small survey that was done some time back.. 

Over 80% of CATIA V5 NC users are utilizing the product at under 50% of its potential because they are not "setup" properly and are working "inefficiently" or they are still doing things the "old way".

Deepak,

I think this topic is dead on. Look at Item 1, on my 1st post.

1) Having a way to get better documentation, more information on how the software works. Sometimes I am still not sure if I am doing something correctly, even after reading the doc's and trial and error, using COE. Getting actual insight into areas of confusion., that will lead to embellishment of the documentation.

 It is all interconnected. The right hardware, software, training, and enhancments. 

Catia is marketed a simple, easy to use and really quick.

All true. In the 3-axis arena. All that stuff in your list is is good stuff. Every thing on your list, I don't allready know how to do, is on my list of things to learn.

But what about 5-axis. There is work involved there. 

But why 80% use 50%???

I think, that because Catia is marketed a simple, Upper managment at many companies do not allocate funds for training, or time to experiment, and get the knowlage to extract the power of Catia. Looking for Instant gratification.

I'll bet 50% of users only use 10% of it.

keep the comments and ideas coming!

Hello all,

Best,

Bryan Felsher

True Precision