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| Forum Highlight: CATIA V6 |
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DAVE_FRANK
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| 11 Jul 2008 04:10 PM |
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Bryan,
I feel your pain
Before I went to the 2008 COE annual conference, I got a temporary license of Catia, Icam, and Vericut for my laptop. Now this is actually my wifes non-catia certified laptop, a girly gateway, with a 30$ video card, a goofy non XP os, etc (my laptop is 4 years old. the wife gets all the new stuff, SUV;s etc.)
Than I souped it up as well as I could, got an external 4 hour battery, 2 gig of ram and a spacemouse.
.....well the space mouse did not work, so I had IT look at it and he decided to install ALL the windows updates. also updates. for the Video That seemed like something that I should be doing anyway. SO..... we reboot after all the updates, and .........Catia will not start at all, it just sits there. Now, I have to hand it to my IT geek, because he was able to isolate this to the video setting needing to let Catia control the video card. .....Whew
Here, I check out SP's before the general population. I don't know how realistic it is to expect 100% bug free sp's from any software vender. I can give you horror story after Horror story.
bugs bugs bugs 
every other day, I see on yahoo that there is another bug with the Iphone.
Lets say, that Gerber compact II, NCL, UG, Pworks, ICAM, Windows, are not 100 bug free, and leave it at that.
OK here's one...I have heard stories where in UG-NX, completed archived files would not open at all......... 3 months of programming un-maintainable.
Conclusion:
Hopefully, your problem will open DS's eyes to an area to do regression testing that they may not considered testing, which may have a domino effect of a more robust testing procedure.
Perhaps your problem will open DS's eyes to what the expectations are for Catia of the small / and / or single user.
Both you and Samarinder, have what I call: The Brain, The Buck, an The Ball, to hang a shingle and live or die what you do with the tools you shelled out your own money on.
But I am held accountable, for recommending spending Mr. FMI's money on Catia, and that is exactly what I am doing.
I will advance the ship into Borg territory at warp 9. There are wonders to astonish us, and horrors to terrorize the timid. But with proper precautions, the future will keep getting better DS....Make it so !
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Chief Instigator MFG ‘PAC-MEN’ Group dfrank nospam @ forrestmachining.nospam.com
Programmers Advising Catia - Making Enhancements Needed
Dell 690 XEON dual QUADZILLA core, 8 gig ram, dual FX4500,SLI |
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BFELSHER
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| 12 Jul 2008 01:25 AM |
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| Sure, but Iphone doesn't cost $36,000 plus $5000 a year maintenance. Now if I had bought a car for instance at that price- let's just say I could have gotten the new Pontiac G8...well if it had bugs that caused reverse to stop working but drive and park and neutral work fine...let's just say I'm sure I'd get a new car. This is a perfect parallel. A lot of defending Dassault here, and softening the blow. I realize I'm just a little guy, but many, many people view my posts, and even more that aren't registered. I have never stated anything that wasn't true. I have been issued SP5 by Dassault systems and it has caused me to have a license that does not work completely and will not restitute. There was no problem prior to SP5. I'm pretty sure that any vehicle company would make damn sure everything at least functioned to make the vehicle at least operate. We're not talking about the airconditioning or the internal lights. I have part, product, but no process. That is like having reverse and neutral but no Drive. I'll call it what it is. Unethical, terrible quality, and terrible support. I was promised an emergency license two days ago immediately. I still don't have it. I would have a very hard time recommending to any of my 45+ customers and many more business relationships to purchase this kind of software. This is beyond a "little" bug. I have nothing here to use period. I like how when a person purchases NCL and chooses to discontinue maintenance, they still continue to keep the software. Maintenance with Catia is not a choice. Stop paying and they will come and pull the software off the computer. That is just plain unethical, if not illegal. If GM or Honda started selling cars that "crashed" and it was plain to see that obviously thorough testing was not done prior to release to public, there would be an uproar. Granted lives aren't at stake. But putting food on the table, paying the bills, and the money is the same or more. It's really a slap in the face, and I'm not going to defend it or be nice about it. |
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Bryan Felsher
True Precision
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BFELSHER
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| 12 Jul 2008 01:29 AM |
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When the problem is fixed, I will delete these posts and that's all I have left to say about it.
EDITED AS I PROMISED. THEY HAVE GIVEN ME EMERGENCY LICENSE TO FIX THE PROBLEM. THANK YOU. |
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Bryan Felsher
True Precision
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ROGER_BOMBASSEI
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| 14 Jul 2008 01:21 AM |
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Bryan,
I think every CATIA owner that came across the problem you found would complain. Most likely to the contact for the maintenence agreement.
The thing is that you are probably the only person that did the upgrade and came across the problem at such a horrible time.
I personally load service packs as soon as I get them and commit every time.  But I don't have much to lose. I can always reload. It sucks to reinstall but it's not the end of the world.
Most people take a more cautious approach. There is a thread on the subject around here somewhere.
What happened to you is awful and I'm sure you are absolutly sick about it. I hope Dassault can somehow help you get past this. |
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Roger Bombassei - rbombassei@elcamino.edu
Online CATIA NC Instructor - El Camino College
http://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/rbombassei/ |
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DAVE SUMM
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| 14 Jul 2008 05:08 AM |
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| The reason you cannot restitute the license is because your machine's IP has changed froom when you extracted it. |
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David Summerscales
Concentric Asia Pacific |
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PBARNA
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| 14 Jul 2008 07:21 AM |
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Has this happened to you!
What is worse than installing and having to reinstall a program like catia is having a file you've been working on for a while. Not making a backup. Opening it in a new version of software you installed and saving the file. Then realizing you must go back to the older version cuz this newer one is just not making it. What! The file now will not open in the older version. Weeks gone maybe a few days. Oh Crap that is tough to take. Before I do that now I backup everything.
That IS messed up. |
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Philip Barna
Arden Engineering Inc.
Tooling Design\Programming 3-5 Axis |
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WICHARD
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| 14 Jul 2008 07:33 AM |
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We had problems here with licensing for a couple of YEARS. FINALLY someone at IBM figured out how to get things working correctly. IBM rates a very bad grade on licensing. I remember over twenty years ago working with licensing and it's hard to believe that IBM still has trouble getting it to work right all the time for eveybody. Hang in there and good luck!
Richard |
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CATIA V5 R18 SP6 - Dell Precision 690 - NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 - XP 64bit 4GB RAM |
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PBARNA
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| 14 Jul 2008 08:49 AM |
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We are still at 18 sp4. No complaints just yet. 19?
Who knows hope its better w no problems.
But its software. There are bound to be bugs.
Nature of the beast.
Just do not want it to bring a business to a halt!
Feeling for ya Bryan...Here's hoping it gets better for ya.
Anyone calling you to help resolve this. After all, after your post here I would think they would be all over it. Make you happy and all.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all.
Hang in there Byran. we need your input here on the forum. You know the positive stuff. Remember that stuff? Yup I'm sure you do. |
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Philip Barna
Arden Engineering Inc.
Tooling Design\Programming 3-5 Axis |
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BFELSHER
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| 14 Jul 2008 09:47 AM |
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Thanks Phillip,
Steph from INCAT is all over it as good as she can, but it's hard for her because an emergency license still must come from Dassault, and I believe it is sent Snail Mail because they are asking if my work address is up to date...
I have had better service from INCAT than most of the other stories I hear about, and I don't mean for my complaints to reflect on them at all, because they have been great.
I believe that something is seriously wrong with the philosophy at Dassault regarding manufacturing. A great example that shows we are not as "important" is the fact that VB macro's record in design/assembly very well. Ever try to record a macro in MFG? Nice blank screen...Not cool...imagine the power if we could record macro's AND insert PPwords anywhere with the toolpath editor. Many problems would be fixed.
I do remember good stuff...but most of it is in Design and Assy. Programming machines with Catia is a lot of fun, and I can make very good programs faster than I ever have. 5-axis in Catia kicks ass, and Catia is VERY good for large complex structural parts. But lately, I have had many small projects, and that is where I notice the deficiencies. Guys are probably right when they suggest having 3 systems if you want the best of everything. Catia tries to have it all, but I suppose that's impossible. Solidworks Design/Assy, Mastercam 3-axis/roughing, NCL 5-axis/part families/macros/parametric design-mfg...all in one place- Catia...that would be incredible and I think very possible. It is closer in R18, but I think it could be a lot closer/faster if they had some real CNC programmers working there with the software engineers that have used many different CAM systems. That is where PAC-MEN group comes in, and I hope they really listen- as they seem to be doing. If I could say one software has the ability to be the best- it is Catia. It is not the best, yet in my opinion, but it will be. I just hope it isn't after I retire...another 30 years... Smooth out the basics first. Make sure licensing and the interface is bullet-proof. Simply everything, and make it less clumsy. (just make it logical...right now it's clearly designed by people that don't have to program with it every day) I think the Cart is before the Horse? I hate to say it, but nearing 30 years is long enough to come up with something mature. If Dassault is reading this, I suggest adopting a new philosophy of simplification versus complexity. If you think about it APT is simple. |
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Bryan Felsher
True Precision
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ROGER_BOMBASSEI
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| 14 Jul 2008 10:45 AM |
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Bryan,
One thing that you have to axcept is the fact that Engineering drives manufacturing. We really don't have a choice about what system to use. Expecially when pay rate and job availability are concerned. I bet if you dumped CATIA, you would lose more than 1/2 of your work right off the bat.
Many companies insist that we use CATIA.
I realize this doesn't make you feel better. But it is a fact that you have to deal with.
Being a contractor that works on location, there is another truth that I am lucky to benefit from. That is the chaos is cash theory. Being that I work for money and the more I get the happier I am, why should I care if I am forced to use an system that takes longer and forces me to do more work?
Now, I realize this goes against the proud craftsman that we like to concider ourselves, but any time I start getting upset, I remind myself that chaos is cash and I feel much better. |
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Roger Bombassei - rbombassei@elcamino.edu
Online CATIA NC Instructor - El Camino College
http://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/rbombassei/ |
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PBARNA
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| 14 Jul 2008 11:11 AM |
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I remind myself that chaos is cash and I feel much better.
Roger,
That is a double edge sword for Bryan. On one hand is income cuz of the jobs he MAY receive holding a lic. of Catia. But, The loss in hours, frustration and high lic fees (maintenance) hurts his bottom line substantially. Smaller companies cannot afford the loss while other larger companies can chalk it up to just doing business. Saying I understand to you Bryan helps a little but it doesn't put back the money flying out of your pocket.
Truth be told though. If at the end of the day/year your ahead of the game and remain profitable, then it may still be a good choice (Catia). Then the answer is clear. Just part of doing business.
Now Bryan, tell us more about all those secret stuff you have..........Come on you know you have it in ya..... |
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Philip Barna
Arden Engineering Inc.
Tooling Design\Programming 3-5 Axis |
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SAMARINDER
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| 14 Jul 2008 11:20 AM |
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I bet if you dumped CATIA, you would lose more than 1/2 of your work right off the bat.
Roger,
The way I see it, I agree to this to a certain extent. And DS is not looking far ahead in order to resolve such MFG issues. And I have just got some contracts from BE aerospace and they are implementing UG as their design package and converting all Catia to NX.
Once old generation of engineers is retiring and new generation is taking over and they will decide what to do with old legacy data and what to use as their design tools and I have seen new implementations of other cad systems. I think Boeing is always behind on their projects and loosing contracts. Gotta go now. |
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Samarinder Singh
NC-Programmer/Tool Designer |
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ROGER_BOMBASSEI
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| 14 Jul 2008 11:30 AM |
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Phillip, I understand exactly what Bryan is going thru. I have been there.
The truth is though, there are a lot more people programming with CATIA that are in my shoes then there are in his.
Samarinder, I have 10 years of UG experience and the day I see more UG jobs that pay more money, I will be programming UG. If it was important to me to program with the best system and I thought UG was the best, I would be programming with UG. But that is not the case. I don't think UG is the best anyway.
And let's be realistic. Dassault has nothing to worry about. |
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Roger Bombassei - rbombassei@elcamino.edu
Online CATIA NC Instructor - El Camino College
http://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/rbombassei/ |
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PBARNA
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| 14 Jul 2008 12:31 PM |
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The truth is though, there are a lot more people programming with CATIA that are in my shoes then there are in his.
That goes without saying. Usually shop owners don't program. They diversify and hire someone to do that. Of course especially when the ones in his shoes would have to be shop owners and or company owners. Not end users. In his case they are the same. So problems with software are immediately felt. Large corp. and or shop owners are sometimes immune to the problems cuz they usually have an intermediate person as in a manager from the end user and or at least a head of programming dept. person that does not like to complain and or rattle the cage. Just think how great things would be if a software company could please a person like Bryan (owner/end user) Things would cleanup fast. It would be a lot better for the people at large.
Just 2 cents............. |
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Philip Barna
Arden Engineering Inc.
Tooling Design\Programming 3-5 Axis |
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ROGER_BOMBASSEI
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| 14 Jul 2008 12:58 PM |
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This isn't an I'm right and your wrong conversation.
We all get to throw in our .02
Bryan got the work and we will continue to try to improve CATIA.
But Samarinder has to take a Mastercam job. |
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Roger Bombassei - rbombassei@elcamino.edu
Online CATIA NC Instructor - El Camino College
http://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/rbombassei/ |
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PBARNA
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| 14 Jul 2008 01:03 PM |
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Lol at Roger. Take it easy bro.
This isn't an I'm right and your wrong conversation.
You are right. its not..........
But Samarinder has to take a Mastercam job.
Samarinder? any comments. Mastercam anyone? where does the line start....Lol |
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Philip Barna
Arden Engineering Inc.
Tooling Design\Programming 3-5 Axis |
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BFELSHER
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| 14 Jul 2008 01:08 PM |
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I see kind and wise words from all. Everything Roger is posting is exactly why I made Catia my choice of software. At least half- maybe 75% of my parts come in as .catparts. And maybe 25% of those have tolerances in the model digitally. So, I knew right away that I would at a minimum have to have Catia PLM express. That is actually very affordable. But the selling point of programming in the native software is very strong, so I went with the advanced machining package from Catia.
Catia no doubt probably is the best DO EVERYTHING package around coupled with the fact that it gets me lots of work. I have no doubt it was really the ONLY choice I could have made, even though if I had my way, I would have prefered a strictly CAM package.
DELETED BELOW AS PROMISED.
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Bryan Felsher
True Precision
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ROGER_BOMBASSEI
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| 14 Jul 2008 01:55 PM |
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If I was so smart, I'd quit my teaching job and spend those hours making time and a half.
There is a good chance I will buy a seat of CATIA and program from my home on Long Island. I miss my boat and my motorcycle. Oh ya, my girlfriend too. And my house.
$35000 + $5000/yr isn't really that much. Most businesses have a lot more overhead than that. That money is all tax deductable too.
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Roger Bombassei - rbombassei@elcamino.edu
Online CATIA NC Instructor - El Camino College
http://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/rbombassei/ |
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SAMARINDER
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| 14 Jul 2008 11:07 PM |
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Roger,
Take it easy
But Samarinder has to take a Mastercam job.
l.o.l.........................................
I am currently using all 3 systems Catia, UG, and Mastercam at my job. I decide which system to use based upon how much time it takes to produce a part program.
p.s. I am also looking for a nc-programmer who can handle 3-x to 5-x complex parts using Mastercam  or Catia or UG or NCL |
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Samarinder Singh
NC-Programmer/Tool Designer |
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ROGER_BOMBASSEI
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| 15 Jul 2008 12:54 AM |
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Is that job at Bandy Samarinder? Will they take me back?  |
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Roger Bombassei - rbombassei@elcamino.edu
Online CATIA NC Instructor - El Camino College
http://www.elcamino.edu/faculty/rbombassei/ |
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