ghartley
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| 06 Aug 2008 01:02 AM |
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Hi I have a number of electrical harness issues and was wondering if anyone can help me?
1, Defining Connector connection points
Does anyone have the issue with the connection of connectors to each other? Basically if one of the connectors is on an agle when you try to connect to another connector they dont align correctly.
2, Connector mounting clip
I have the same issue as above but with the connector mounting clip. Does anyone one have this issue?
3, Creating physical wires.
Is it possible to create a physical wire that can be shown in the harness product file? If so how do you create, route and store the wire?
4, Earth terminals
How to create? I have just created as a connector. Also the bundle position point i have created at the centre of eyyelet as this is to our standard. However how do you get the harness to pass through the back of the eyelet and to be normal to a plane when the bundle position point is at the centre of the ring?
5, Catalogues
Is there any way of giving read write access to parts through the catalogue?
Also is there any easy way of re linking parts to the catalogue if they are moved to a different folder/ area?
6, Shells/ Back shells
Does anyone use them? If so what are they used for?
Any help with these would be really appreciated.
Thanks |
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tjs4689

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| 21 Aug 2008 03:23 PM |
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1, Defining Connector connection points
Does anyone have the issue with the connection of connectors to each other? Basically if one of the connectors is on an angle when you try to connect to another connector they don't align correctly.
I would recommend using two shapes first is a cylinder that is centered on the x axis that is planer to YZ plane with with a cut plan parallel to XY plane in the positive direction that cuts the cylinder into a "D" shape. We will call this power copy the Male connection shape. The second is a cylinder larger than the first with a pocket the same shape as the first. We will call this power copy the Female connection shape.
For Connector Connection Point relationship the Female is copied into the receptacle and the Male is placed Plug.
Then during Electrical Connection Typing the
- Place a Contact constraint, for example a face.
- For the Male use the face common to YZ plane.
- For the Female use the face at the bottom of the Pocket.
- Place a Coincidence constraint, for example an axis.
- For both Male and Female use the cylinder center axis
- Place an Orientation constraint, for example a surface, a line or an axis.
- For both Male and Female use the Flat face of the "D" shape.
This method will insure that when connecting electrical devices regardless of location and orientation the two part will join properly.
I will be attending the CATIA Operators Exchange (COE) 2008 Fall Industry Workshop - Aerospace & Defense in support of the Electrical Engineering Track. If you will be attending I propose that part of the Electrical Round Table cover this topic and show creation and instancing methods. What do you thing of this proposal? |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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tjs4689

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| 21 Aug 2008 03:26 PM |
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2, Connector mounting clip I have the same issue as above but with the connector mounting clip. Does anyone one have this issue?
Do you mean the Mounting bracket? If you do I will revise this note to talk the Issue. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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tjs4689

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| 21 Aug 2008 03:31 PM |
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3, Creating physical wires. Is it possible to create a physical wire that can be shown in the harness product file? If so how do you create, route and store the wire? Why would like to create a physical wire. V5 supports logical wire and wire group routing that have influence on the bundle segment diameter? Depending on the product the physical modeling of wire will result in extremely large models that will adversely affect performance. In small products like Modules this could be done but would not be recommended for Automotive or Aerospace application at a greater level. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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tjs4689

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| 21 Aug 2008 03:37 PM |
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4, Earth terminals How to create? I have just created as a connector. Also the bundle position point i have created at the centre of eyyelet as this is to our standard. However how do you get the harness to pass through the back of the eyelet and to be normal to a plane when the bundle position point is at the centre of the ring?
If Earth Terminal are same as or similar to Terminal Lugs the answer is the bundle segment comes up to the back of the terminal barrel and the parameter for extra length is used to logically account for the wire length from the back of the terminal barrel to termination of the wire. Wire length is calculated by the system by all bundles segments the wire is routed on and the extra length for the terminations at each end. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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ghartley
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| 21 Aug 2008 11:58 PM |
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Hi Tim, thanks very much for your responses. I will try them now.
Do you have any info re issues 5 and 6.
Thanks again for your help. |
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ghartley
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| 22 Aug 2008 12:00 AM |
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| Regarding issue 2 i meant a clip that is mouted into a panel to hold the connector. |
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ghartley
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| 22 Aug 2008 05:00 AM |
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Hi Tim. I am really struggling to try and get the connector to connector and clip connections defined. IVE TRIED DOING WHAT YOU SAID BUT THEY JUST DONT SEEM TO ORIENTATE correctly after connection. Ive defined same axis directions etc etc.
Dont suppose you have an example document step by step of something you could send me?
Thanks very much |
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ITSMYJOB

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| 22 Aug 2008 08:45 AM |
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Hello,
First I would like to thanks Tim for sharing his knowledge.
Then I hope this file will help you ghartley with the Conector connection... |


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Eric N
INDOCTI DISCANT ET AMENT MEMINISSE PERITI |
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ghartley
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| 23 Aug 2008 12:22 AM |
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Hi Thanks very much for that. Really appreciate your help.
Got it working. |
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tjs4689

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| 25 Aug 2008 10:21 AM |
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5, Catalogues Is there any way of giving read write access to parts through the catalogue? Also is there any easy way of re linking parts to the catalogue if they are moved to a different folder/ area?
There are two methods the first requires ENOVIA LCA the other is using DRM.
1. ENOVIA LCA controls are a very large topic and without some scenarios I would be not want to recommend a path for you. What kind of standard part would you want the designer to modify?
2. After you give control of a part to a designer they can do anything to it. If the part should have only say two parameter that the designer would change there is no way I know of to open the part only permitting the change of those two items.
There is no easy way to relink the parts. Might make for a good SER to submit for CATALOGS.
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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tjs4689

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| 25 Aug 2008 10:23 AM |
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22 Aug 2008 12:00 AM Quote Reply Regarding issue 2 i meant a clip that is mouted into a panel to hold the connector.
Those are mechanical parts not covered by the electrical workbenches. I would recommend standard assembly constraints. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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tjs4689

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| 25 Aug 2008 10:39 AM |
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6, Shells/ Back shells Does anyone use them? If so what are they used for?
Shells are the outer part of a complex connector assembly. In aerospace and defense we have many such shells and connector relation ships.
Back shells on the other hand provide for bundle support at the back of shells or single insert connectors. A back shell is a physical component used to guide the ends of bundle segments, and to protect the crimping area. They also provide ground function when required. A back shell allows: One or more cavities; One or more back shell connection point; One bundle connection point. The cavities can be used of the connection of Terminal Lugs as single insert connectors or contacts. The back shell connection point is used to mount the back shell to a single insert connector or the a shell. If you search the user guide for "What Connection to What Component" you should find a mounting matrix of device and connection types. Since electrical can not modify this paring a SER would be required and approved to improve the relationships. For example we have back shells that have more than one entry point for wires to route through. However back shells only provide for a single bundle connection point. Currently we use another method for routing that is less than optimal. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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tjs4689

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| 25 Aug 2008 10:50 AM |
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| I am looking forward to see what DS Electrical R&R has planned for V6! I hope to see continuation on electrical and assembly relationships, automated placement of wire harness standard parts, 3D XML electrical definition, and extending the form boards to support both 2D and 3D harness fabrication. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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ghartley
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| 26 Aug 2008 01:12 AM |
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Thanks for the info.
Dont suppose you have an example i could following for creating and using the backshell?
Thanks again for the help. |
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ghartley
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| 26 Aug 2008 05:18 AM |
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Hi could any one help me with creating internal splices? Basically ive created them before and i have had no issues. Now i tried to create one again by creating a new product, defining as internal splice. However this time i cannot see the sphere that is usually visible.
Is there some setting i need so that i can see the splice???
Thanks |
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tjs4689

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| 26 Aug 2008 11:29 AM |
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Dont suppose you have an example i could following for creating and using the backshell?

Let us talk about computer connectors for this example as I do not know in what industry you work. An DB25 connector and back shells make for a good example.
The connector is a rectangular type using single insert connector device type for both male and female connectors. The single insert connector device type allows one cavity connection point, one connector connection point, one back shell connection point, bundle connection points, terminations and or cavities. The Connector connection point connection type is modeled so when the two connectors are press together the insert face touch. For the back shell connection point it needs to be modeled based on how the back shell assembly is modeled, but in general for this part. The flange is used to mount the back shell on to the connector. I would place the back shell connection point at the center of the rear face of this flange. I would place the bundle connection point at the center of the rear face of this insert. We will not for this example talk about the cavity connection point, cavities or terminations.
The back shell in this example is a split clam shell type and is a physical component used to guide the ends of bundle segments, and to protect the crimping area. A back shell allows: One or more cavities; One or more back shell connection point; One bundle connection point. We will not for this example talk about the cavities. Depending on if you model each side of this assembly as separate parts or model the assembly as as a single CATPart. I would place the bundle connection point at the center of the rear face of the clamp stack. I would place the back shell connection point at the center of the rear face of the flange groove.
Hi could any one help me with creating internal splices? Basically ive created them before and i have had no issues. Now i tried to create one again by creating a new product, defining as internal splice. However this time i cannot see the sphere that is usually visible.
Is there some setting i need so that i can see the splice???
An Internal Splice is a connector used between wires belonging to the same bundle segment. An internal splice is a CATProduct document with no associated geometry. It is only available in the context of Electrical Assembly Design workbench but not in Electrical Part Design workbench. Currently in V5 there are two types of devices for splices, External Splice and Internal Splice. The External Splice is a connector used to secure bundle segments from different geometrical bundles and has a geometric shape. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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ghartley
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| 10 Sep 2008 01:06 AM |
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Hi Tim thanks once again for your help, really appreciate it.
Do you know why when i create the internal splice i pysically cannot see the sphere? I dont know whats happened but i created some a while ago and they were OK i could see them, however when i try to create a new one there is visually no sphere?
The other question i have is to do with addaptive supports. Currently i am using supports with base plane etc. Ive tried following the online help to create an adaptive clip where the tie starp automatically adjusts to the harness bundle diameter. However i cant seem to get it working. Do you know how to do this and if so do you have an example i could follow?
Thanks again for all your help>
Gregg |
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tjs4689

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| 10 Sep 2008 10:52 AM |
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Do you know why when i create the internal splice i pysically cannot see the sphere? I dont know whats happened but i created some a while ago and they were OK i could see them, however when i try to create a new one there is visually no sphere?
The reason is that when during creation their is no geometry to show. The point that shows up during place is generated at that time and a relationship is created between that point and the IS CATProduct.
The other question i have is to do with addaptive supports. Currently i am using supports with base plane etc. Ive tried following the online help to create an adaptive clip where the tie starp automatically adjusts to the harness bundle diameter. However i cant seem to get it working. Do you know how to do this and if so do you have an example i could follow?
Creating an Adaptative Part - http://.../all/online/cfyugelec_C2/cfyugelecadaptativepart.htm details the creation of this part type. Also their is a sample part on this page.
Creating/Modifying Segments within a Branch - http://.../all/online/ehiug_C2/ehiugbt0204.htm
Defining the Segment Route - http://.../all/online/ehiug_C2/ehiugbt0500.htm
The harness scenario for usage is as follows:
1. Create GBN
2. Place Adaptative Support (10in,0in,0in)
3. Create Start and Stop points for Multi-Branchable Segment (Start - 0in,0in,0in; Stop - 20in,0in,0in)
4. Multi-Branchable Document and First Branch
5. Select Start point
6. Select Adaptative Support - At this point the Adaptative Support should reflect the size of the segment that goes through it.
7. Select Stop point
8. Confirm Support Selections & Segment Creation
9. Update context
I have used V5R18SP5HF25 and confirmed that this works. |
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Timothy J. Suhr COE EME DPC Co-Chair Technical Product Designer The Boeing Company Boeing - Phantom Works Product, Process & Resource Definition (PPRD) P.O. Box 3707 M/S 42-54 Seattle, WA 98124-2207 |
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ghartley
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| 18 Sep 2008 12:00 AM |
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Hi Tim, thanks once again for help.
Unfortunately i still cannot get the adaptive tie band working. Ive tried the example and it works fine. HOwever when i start from the begining with my tie strap i cant get it working with different bundle diamters automatically. I think there is an issue with the formula etc.
Do you have an example i could follow for the formula, publication and process?
Thanks Gregg |
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