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Subject: Running SmarTeam on VMware

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brian.baumann

09 Jun 2008 10:27 AM
My company is looking at upgrading from Smarteam R14 to R18. As it stands right now, the project may be in jeporardy of being canceled due to costs (Consulting / Hardware). I have recommended that we use VM Ware to help cut down on hardware costs which may in turn help cut down on consulting costs. We would then be looking at purchasing 3 servers vs. 12 (multisite) and be able to do so at our leisure and not be under the gun (as it would be on separate servers). However, our Dassault tech has said that VMware is not supported. Our company will not budge on unsupported solutions, as we would not want it to be the scapegoat for future issues. What is this user communities exposure to running SmarTeam on VMware? Is anyone willing to offer themselves up to a discussion on their implementation? Thanks in advance.

EMAGNETTO

09 Jun 2008 11:12 AM
We have been using VMWare (Workstation and Server versions) for 5 years for Smarteam Projects. We are PLM Consultants and have been involved on Smarteam implementations, migrations and programming since then. We used VMWare for development, testing and preproduction. We haven´t used it on Production Smarteam Environments. I know other people from the COE forum are using for prod. We never had any issue related to VMWare usage (except you cannot install LUM Server on virtualized hardware). If I understand correctly, you have 3 locations with Multisite, and have 4 servers at each. You want 1 server at each site, with 4 virtualized servers on each one. Am I right? What´s the purpose of your post? Do you want arguments to go for a virtualized env? Have you thought on other approaches? Let´s say, if you want to virtualize 4 servers on each location there´s two options: * Or you don´t have many users / requirements on each locations ... * Or you´ll need a big (and expensive) server. So, what´s the purpose of using 4 servers on each location? That´s something we can discuss depending on your env. If you want, I can help you but need more info. So, if you don´t want to provide here info, we can go on by mail. It´s up to you. Regards! Eduardo

brian.baumann

09 Jun 2008 11:26 AM
Yes, I am looking for arguments to go for a virtualized env. We currently have three sites, with four physical servers at each for Smarteam. Each location is setup with the following on its own physical server: 1) Foundation Server (Core Services, Vault Server) 2) Web Navigator / Editor 3) Cimmetry Viewer 4) Oracle This setup is what was recommended for us based on our current user load. I have proposed VMWare as a production solution for our company as I believe it will give us the most bang for the buck and allow scalability to happen with ease in the future, as well as a quicker DR solution. Our current two other approaches are a) Purchase/lease the same amount of servers as we have now and do upgrade to R18 on those b) Upgrade over the top of our existing production environment on same hardware. (i want to avoid this option like the Plague!!!!!) As far as big expensive servers, I have been running quotes every so often. We have a SAN or a NAS at all 3 locations, so, we will be able to do it right. I have been coming up with about $5K/$6K per server, plus the cost of VMWare ESX.

EMAGNETTO

09 Jun 2008 02:07 PM
Have you measured if 4 servers on each site are oversized? This will depend on the # of users, roles (or user types), CAD integrations, average file sizes, etc. I agree on b approach, but ... Perhaps you may only replace most loaded server/s. Before going deeper on hw/virtualized issue, let me ask you some questions. * Will you make the migration internally, or will get help from a an external consultant? (important if you don´t have experience on migrations) * Will you migrate Oracle (as you´re using Multisite I assume you´re using it)? * Have you many programatic customizations? Are those by script, or COM/.NET based? * If scripts, do you have skills to modify in case some usage scenarios on R18 fails? * If COM (for example, with VB6), you should think on migrate to .NET 2.0 (as non .NET customs are not supported anymore). * If .NET 1.1 , you must migrate to .NET 2 * Do you have resources to replicate (at least partially) your env and test the migration? This is where vmware workstation and/or server may help. This are some points you should take care of for this kind of migration. Now, before going deeper on the hw issue. If your company will not invest on non supported configurations. Do you think you can convince them to do so with the correct arguments? The problem here is that even you can get examples here of virtualized implementations, will never be "Dassault Standards" compliance. On my experience, it may or may not put you into trouble in the future. Depending on the potential issue, Dassault support might finally deny a solution on a virtual env. But as said, will depend on the issue. We reported 20 or 25 bugs stating we were using VMWare and they never rejected the incidents. We only had one issues, virtualization related, on LUM licensing. You cannot install LUM Server on a virtualized OS, not even on ESX. The pros for us exceeds the cons on virtualization. Pros, are the common pros on virtualization you can find on VMWare site. The only real con now is a potential lack of support from DS on specific issues.

PIANNACCHIONE

22 Jul 2008 12:56 PM
I use VI3 for production SmarTeam Multi-Site environment (V5 R18). The one extremely nice feature I would comment on is the ability to snapshot all sites prior to a data model operation (assumes Foundation and database servers are virtualized). Anyone that has done a Multi-Site data model knows that you have a real mess on your hands if it fails (sometimes days to rebuild). I actually had a failure four hours into the operation and it only took ten minutes to perform a rollback. Worth every penny and more!

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