Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs

COE Administrator

Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Samarinder has a great Idea

Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs

See the thread here.

http://www.coe.org/Collaboration/DiscussionForum/ActiveDiscussions/tabid/210/forumid/5/postid/113616/view/topic/Default.aspx


Now I talked with Mr. Touron at COE about this. He totaly understands the concept.

He is confident that the functionality, can be implemented in the Activities Process Table. Now the specific functionality requested, but a solution none the less. Perhaps they can do both.. we will have to see but if the can do it with the Activities Process Table, than that is a dramatic solution, since we are using the A.P.T. more and more. Wait... did I just say A.P.T... now I'm sad again. . Ha Ha Ha


I said it over there and I will say it again.

This is one of the best Ideas to come from a member of the PACMEN. IMHO

I listed it as #7 in the preamble. I discussed this in detail with Dassault, at COE.... and there is good news on the horizon.

This Idea demonstrates is in my opinion, how intelegent people, with experience to many other systems, can contribute quality ideas, that Dassault can slurp up and add to the software. Just one reason why I recruited, V4, NCL, Mastercam guys.

Some people think this is not a huge priority, but I can tell you as the "Fix it guy" for legacy programs, documentation, and organization, is a great help.

Way to go Samirinder.

Samarinder Singh

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
Hello Dave,

I appreciat your efforts to bring this in DS' attention. Also I have recently purchased camtasia and tried a video clip (attached file) that I'd like to share here.

I could not upload it as it kept giving me error.

"Invalid file type or file exceeds max size(1000kb)"

I tried to file extension to ".txt" and I tried to zip it. Nothing is working.

Thanks
Samarinder

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
If you like, you can right click both the product and the process (or any subtree for that matter) and select open subtree.) This way it will stay put where you want it. You can still do anything you normally would do in the default tree. It just adds another level of organization and makes it easier to keep the product tree visible and in the same place when selecting geometry for operations...I'm giving away too many secret tricks...

Samarinder Singh

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Bryan,

1. We are not talking about subtrees here as it behaves the same way as ppr tree when trying to switch between workbenches(say you want to add or modify NCGeometry for any reason)
see this thread below:

http://www.coe.org/Collaboration/DiscussionForum/ActiveDiscussions/tabid/210/forumid/5/postid/116896/view/topic/Default.aspx

2. I would like to see the sets and subsets, groups and subgroups just as you can do it in UG or Mastercam.

I made a small video clip which I couldnt upload here. I'll try to mail it to all of the pacmen-group.

Thanks
Samarinder.

Roger Bombassei

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Samarinder, I couldn't make the avi play. Did it work for anyone else?

Philip Barna

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Nope! not here as well...

Samarinder Singh

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
I'll try to send it in a different format this time. I played it with windows media player-11 and it plays ok.

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Here's my point- and why I'm kind of "changing" my mind about this. It's strictly based on evidence and pessimism- I admit it. If I could actually believe that repairs would be made that would really improve things, I might not feel this way.

After more than 20 years, 5 versions (soon to be 6) and many, many releases- Catia is STILL full of bugs (seriously- how many releases of Catia have there been 100? and still not one single version that is bug free- quality control?). There are software packages out there- Mastercam, NCL, that do not have these kinds of bugs. With Mastercam, I don't remember ANY bugs at all- actually. Given this...it is obvious that Catia will most likely NEVER be mature software regarding the NC side. We have to accept that. Someone made the suggestion about Video replay to Dassault. Now in R18 it is terrible. Having to go back and forth to tools- options to change colors is horrible. I'm seriously concerned about any changes, because I think it will only get worse! They tried to fix thread milling- now I hear it's upside down? What will happen when they "attempt" to fix Multi-axis Flank Contour...a nightmare...it's bad enough- but at least it works!

Look at isoparametric versus Sweeping- one approach line the arrow pointing one way, the other opposite- meaning which direction tool will go...how are we supposed to remember...look at ghost links...the pain in the ass way of saving machining processes and the way they keep ghost links to the catalog process. (And if you accidently delete that process then every process with paths copied from it will lose ALL the tool paths). Concurrent license issues- it just doesn't work properly...having to pay maintenance fees or else they yank your license...Maintenance should be OPTIONAL!!! If you don't want it, the license should be permanent and you just don't get support...I wouldn't have bought the software had I known that sneaky way they operate. What the heck was the $36,000 for? For 1 year of usage and another $5500 gets me one more year? So Catia costs me $20,500 per year to ooerate for 2 years. Then year 3 onward is just back to $5500 per year. Maintenance is mandatory with Catia or you lose it completely and the original $36,000 is gone bye-bye. How can that even be legal?

So messing with something which is the foundation- the PPR tree scares the hell out of me.

I'm all for enhancements, I just don't want to mess with the MAJOR stuff- stuff that effects the whole infrastructure and methodology. Things that have a chain reaction effect. In other words, my attitude is if it works, let's not mess with it. Let's fix what doesn't work. I know my opinion is not the majority- it's just mine.

That is why I want to just leave it alone.

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
One other thing...sometimes I think to myself- well if you want it to be like "this" or "that" software so much- why not just get "that" software? Personally, I plan on it. I will keep the basic Catia "express" configuration- it's cheap - only about $10,000 and has all the design modules. But NC programming is going to start on another system in 2009. Unless R19 really is what they're promising- I'm going to another system.

COE Administrator

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Posted By BFELSHER on 24 Jun 2008 01:39 PM

With Mastercam, I don't remember ANY bugs at all- actually.



That made me chuckle. I remember loads... That's not to say I don't miss some features it had, but I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a plastic daffodil than go back to Mastercam for any 5 axis work.

It may be different if I was paying the bill.


Cheers.






Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Subsets, for organization of PPR tree for nc programs
(in response to Samarinder Singh)
Actually, I never did any 5 axis work with Mastercam- just 3 and 4 axis, and don't remember any bugs with that...Funny, a friend read my post and called me and actually asked me, "So- did you ever program 5 axis with Mastercam?" Upon my responce of "No"- he kind of laughed, too...

All I can really say, is I know my attitude about releases is kind of bad- but keep in mind- I shelled out the money for Catia out of pocket...the best thing would be if someone like Samarinder actually worked at Dassault to make sure they do the enhancements right! Because there is a problem of some sort with the MFG department of Dassault. When it comes to the Design side of Catia- I think it is absolutely excellent. Makes me wonder why design is nearly perfect, but MFG has so many issues...They need a real programmer there to help them program it correctly and preferably one with years of experience with many different softwares. My opinion is Samarinder please move to France for a few months and help those guys out! Hell, I'd do it if the pay was right...I even have a French girlfriend moving back in August so I'd have a place to stay...They need it! All in good jest. Catia does make an excellent program as the end result. It's the means that are clumsy. Even the way the subsets work for Constraints is clumsy in my opinion. Being able to order operations and use Subset groups, etc...the way constraints work, and also being able to rearrange them the same way we can do so with parts in a product would be great...as long as they don't seriously F it up.