ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.

Dave Frank

ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.

ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.

 

Here is something I have done in my post, and would like to see it in CATIA:

Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.

 

Yes,  I can also break a tape : ( Post command BREAK) and I do, but where. Not in the middle of the cut, right???? !!!!!

 

As we know, both pocketing and surface kellering can output miles of nc-tape, or megs of .tap files, with a single MO.

 

Issue (1) Tool changes.

Base on in time cut, a maximum tool life is communicated to the post with a PPRINT ICAM MAXLIFE command. That sets a variable in the post and every GOTO command, the post looks to see if MAXLIFE is exceeded. When it is, it looks for the next fast feedrate, (assuming it is a retract), and then calls a macro that retracts, and stops to check the tool. The post stores the pointvector before pulling out, so it desired, the post can execute a LOADTL sequence, that does a tool check, and failsafe.

 

SO, for CATIA, if they Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut, with approach and retracts, this will allow seamless tool changes in these large sequences.

 

 

Issue (2) file size. 

Many controls, say a Siemens 840D, have 1-2 meg of memory, and almost infinite hard disc storage.

 

The problem is, the machine operator controls do not function the same, 

using hard disc storage, or memory. Memory is more robust. For searching, editing, etc.

 

The recommended way from Siemens, is to use more smaller programs, rather than one big one, and call them from a main program.

 

So,  for CATIA, if they Invoke linking style macros, based on file size, then again, the post can execute a LOADTL sequence, that does a tool check, and failsafe, and each of these tape segments.

 

Keeping in mind, that NC-Code, will be larger then the Aptsource, some factor will be needed to be in effect. One day, there may even be an integrated link with the post and this kind of feature, to break in the right spot, with some protection on the post generated retracts, for t-cutters and bell cutters, to not damage the part. But Invoke linking style macros should give to programmers some control.

 

If people are interested, I can put up some of the code to do this with Icam, but not now, I am super busy. I just stepped on a nail, and want to get this idea in.  (stepped on a nail is a figure of speech I use, when something happens that is a initiator, for an idea)

 

Any of this make sense to you folks?


Best regards

Dave

 




 

OK OK, here is one snippet.

 

This goes in global variables definition

 

DECLAR/GLOBAL,REAL,MAXLIFE $$ DEFAULT TOOL TIME BEFORE AUTOMATIC TOOL CHECK

$$ $$

DECLAR/GLOBAL,REAL,TIME4MAX $$ SET AT TC_SHUTDOWN FOR MAXLIFE

$$

$$

MAXLIFE=60*60*24 $$ 1 day           $$ DEFAULT MEASURED IN SECONDS, for $$                                                           no activation

 

 

 

PPrint macro to turn PPRINT ICAM MAXLIFE=90  into a numeric variable

$@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

$$!@#PPRINT/$P1'' PPRINT_01 Look for "PPRINT ICAM"

$@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

$$

PPRINT/$P1'' $$ =3= PPRINT_01 Look for "PPRINT ICAM"

$$

$$

IF/$FINDEX($P1,'ICAM').GT.0 $$ Look for "ICAM"

 

  L1=$FINDEX($P1,'MAXLIFEM=')+9 $$ Look for max. life

  IF/L1.GT.9

    MAXLIFE=$FATOF($FSUBST($P1,L1,$FLEN($P1)))*60 $$ Store max. life

    TERMAC

  ENDOF/IF

  ENDOF/IF

 

Justin Dean Dinneen

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Very cool stuff for sure.  You have me wishing we had the MB license and adding this option with using time and size for breaking up long tool motion is awesome, especially on hard material jobs with known tool life.  We have have cutters exploding weekly, if not daily do to operators not rotating inserts in the known tool life time.  Great idea and I hope they implement in catia soon.  Hopefully soon I can get a better understanding of campost and will try to add this function in our posts also.  Were using V18 here, it would be real cool if V19 had this kinda built in when it comes out. Great information and idea, thankyou

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
I'll take that as a YES,

This is a top ten in my opinion.

Check this out... I have a maxlife_2, that retracts, and issue a option stop, then returns, feeding slow the last .1 back into the part
you can set maxlife_2, to any time interval.

In the mean time, if you are exploding cutters now, weekly, I suggest try aptimport, and insert PPRNITS and clearance moves manually.

I can help you with this in ICAM when I have some free time. It's pretty cool.

BUT NOT FOR A PERMINANT WORK AROUNDS.
I say, any code that generates motion, NEEDS to be in CATIA, so Video verifys ALL THE MOTION.

Dave

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
This would be great. The ability to do a roughing operation, and set it to retract tool for a tool change ever 20 minutes or so.

For now, I have an executable which I've purchased from NCDataServices, which does this. You drop the aptsource onto the .exe, and it breaks up the program.

There is a configuration file to set TIME in the cut, How many duplicate tools, approach, reentry, retract feedrates, RAPID or NO Rapid, Clearance Plane, and some other stuff. It's very handy. It only counts the time in machine feedrate. It ignores RAPID motions or feeds above a configured value, when adding the time in the cut.

If I set 20 minutes and 3 tools, it will retract and add LOADTL/1, LOADTL/2, LOADTL/3 every 20 minutes.

This is used for ROUGHING, so I don't care about retracting mid-cut, so much, but the retract should be the same as the machining feedrate for safety. The end result, is that each tool will run for EXACTLY the same amount of time, as chosen. The problem with waiting until the tool is out of the cut, is the times won't all be exact, which is important when you are really dialing in your feeds and speeds.

The benefit to doing this from within Catia, is that you can add normal or arc retract/approach motion and RAPID up and out, rather than feeding. You'd never have to retract against a wall, which could be bad with a corn-cob rougher.

At least my executable is exact and saves TONS of time breaking it up manually. The EXE is available, and you can contact me if interested. I would, however, like to see this happen from WITHIN catia. That would be even better, and easier.

I just don't see it happening, in Catia- ever.... This change would have to be applied to ALL MO's, as I typically don't use any automatic roughing cycles when programming hard metals, but rather use a combination of Profile contouring and Pocketing MO's, then copy and edit them for the finish paths. So, I had to look for other solutions.

It is possible to look at the catia run-times when backplotting, and break up paths using the toolpath editor, copy, and paste, and tweaking it...but that's a royal pain, and very time consuming. Plus, you're paths are locked, so you lose associativity.

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

Justin,

Another thing you can do, is select multiple MO's for replay,
The replay window will show total machine time
insert tool changes there.


Dave


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Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Bryan,

That sounds like a great app.
If I did not have the ability to customize the posts, I would want it.

Dave

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By BFELSHER on 14 Dec 2010 04:31 PM
This would be great. The ability to do a roughing operation, and set it to retract tool for a tool change ever 20 minutes or so.

For now, I have an executable which I've purchased from NCDataServices, which does this. You drop the aptsource onto the .exe, and it breaks up the program.

There is a configuration file to set TIME in the cut, How many duplicate tools, approach, reentry, retract feedrates, RAPID or NO Rapid, Clearance Plane, and some other stuff. It's very handy. It only counts the time in machine feedrate. It ignores RAPID motions or feeds above a configured value, when adding the time in the cut.

If I set 20 minutes and 3 tools, it will retract and add LOADTL/1, LOADTL/2, LOADTL/3 every 20 minutes.

This is used for ROUGHING, so I don't care about retracting mid-cut, so much, but the retract should be the same as the machining feedrate for safety.

I see your point. It just depends on the part. I have needed it for retracting mid-cut. Some dies, one scrubing operation ran for over 100 hours.
 
All it takes it the jog in the wrong direction. I know a shop that scrapped 3 very expensive parts, and destroyed 3 100 HP 10,000 rpm spindles, with an errant jog. It only needs to happen once in 10 years, to ruin your decade, if you get my meaning.

The end result, is that each tool will run for EXACTLY the same amount of time, as chosen. The problem with waiting until the tool is out of the cut, is the times won't all be exact, which is important when you are really dialing in your feeds and speeds.

I agree, with known tool life, exact is good. Sometime, I like to have the choice, if there are a lot of retracts, I like the option of using them. Heck, I can add if $fedtime.GT.(maxlife*1.10) (110%) retract now. Easy stuff


The benefit to doing this from within Catia, is that you can add normal or arc retract/approach motion and RAPID up and out, rather than feeding. You'd never have to retract against a wall, which could be bad with a corn-cob rougher.


Thanks for helping make the case for "Invoke linking style macros" enhancment.


At least my executable is exact and saves TONS of time breaking it up manually. The EXE is available, and you can contact me if interested. I would, however, like to see this happen from WITHIN catia. That would be even better, and easier.

Again, Thanks for helping make the case

I just don't see it happening, in Catia- ever.... (cumon, never say never... have some faith. we have been pleasantly supprised before.)   This change would have to be applied to ALL MO's, as I typically don't use any automatic roughing cycles when programming hard metals, but rather use a combination of Profile contouring and Pocketing MO's, then copy and edit them for the finish paths. So, I had to look for other solutions.

It is possible to look at the catia run-times when backplotting, and break up paths using the toolpath editor, copy, and paste, and tweaking it...but that's a royal pain, and very time consuming. Plus, you're paths are locked, so you lose associativity.

Again, Thanks for helping make the case

Best Regards,
Dave


Samarinder Singh

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
UG NX5 has done it over 2 years ago. And it inserts all necessary toolchanges and App/Ret moves as well.

Time based Division of toolpath
Tape Length based
Tool length based ( based on Stickout distance from holder)

In Catia you can do it using a workarounds

Set different Top, Bottom planes in roughing MOs

However if you have to control it more precisely and cutter has to be changed after certain time, then Time based is the only option I would like to use.

Last year I quoted a 5-axis roughing of inconel-625 part(weighing approximately 4000lbs) and customer wanted to change the ceramic tool every 2.5min. I could really use the Time Based division of toolpath inside Catia.

Thanks,
Samarinder

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By SAMARINDER on 14 Dec 2010 07:51 PM

Thanks for the reply, Samarinder

UG NX5 has done it over 2 years ago. And it inserts all necessary toolchanges and App/Ret moves as well.

Well, I wrote that macros for my post 6 years ago, and talked about it in a testimonial on the ICAM web site, so they must have stole my idea.  Ha Ha Ha

Time based Division of toolpath
Tape Length based
Tool length based ( based on Stickout distance from holder)

I found out from our mastercam guy, that MC does it also.

In Catia you can do it using a workarounds

Set different Top, Bottom planes in roughing MOs

I wish.... The MO's I am using, do not have different Top, Bottom planes. Thanks for the suggestion though.

However if you have to control it more precisely and cutter has to be changed after certain time, then Time based is the only option I would like to use.

Last year I quoted a 5-axis roughing of inconel-625 part(weighing approximately 4000lbs) and customer wanted to change the ceramic tool every 2.5min. I could really use the Time Based division of toolpath inside Catia.

Yes, ceramic tools on inconel, is very cool. Hot actually. Sparks flying like a mini rocket engine. We got the tools to last, I think like 6min. I have a cool video somewhere  

I could really use the Time Based division of toolpath inside Catia.

Thanks, Samarinder for helping sell this E.R.  I will post some more code snippets, next week.

Best Regards
Dave




Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By BFELSHER on 14 Dec 2010 04:31 PM 


If I set 20 minutes and 3 tools, it will retract and add LOADTL/1, LOADTL/2, LOADTL/3 every 20 minutes.

I forgot to say.... this is a great requirement to add to the enhancment request. Indespensable for lights out machining ................( for those of you from Rio Linda, lights out machining means unattended)

Thanks Bryan for mentioning this. I forgot about this.......so is the beauty of the forum.... the ideas get kicked around and improved upon, so the best ideas are presented. 

Dave


Justin Dean Dinneen

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
good tips guys thiankyou, when or if I get to do a hard metal job I will definately use your ideas . The jobs the cutters are breaking on are others projects, and most of the time they don't want to listen, but I will and do, so I defiinately will implement.

Got me to thinking, I haven't cut a hard metal job in about 3 yrs probally. Been mostly in a mag3 or other hs machine environment where its all aluminum

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Having the tool just retract to a safety point for operator to change inserts isn't good enough...too much time wasted while machine sits for operator. Most shops use duplicate tools- up to 5 or more in the carousel, so a LOADTL (toolchange) for a duplicate tool must be added within Catia as well, for a time-based "invoke linking macro" enhancement to work well. This is an important enhancement, in my opinion. My app basically does this, so not having it Catia, I have an advantage over the next guy...but still, I'd use it if it was there and worked well.

Justin Dean Dinneen

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

95% of our machines are hand load  --- mostly a gantry shop here.  I miss the tool changer machines so bad.  Definately stacking or duplicating tool builds is a big plus on cutting hard metals.  I've had my best luck with that philosophy.

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By BFELSHER on 02 Jan 2011 02:04 AM
Having the tool just retract to a safety point for operator to change inserts isn't good enough...too much time wasted while machine sits for operator. Most shops use duplicate tools- up to 5 or more in the carousel, so a LOADTL (toolchange) for a duplicate tool must be added within Catia as well, for a time-based "invoke linking macro" enhancement to work well. This is an important enhancement, in my opinion. My app basically does this, so not having it Catia, I have an advantage over the next guy...but still, I'd use it if it was there and worked well.


Yep, Bryan is dead on.

Now even for Gantry shops, (we have 22), a complete tool change, with a stop at the 4.000 indicator, and failsafe motion is a requirement.

So, for our friends at Dassault, taking care of adding linking macros based on time, and file size is what we need. We can add Loadtls ourselves, unless,

.......... unless DS added a tool change, as one of the things you can do in a macro.

Anyone think that is a good idea...??????

Thanks 
Dave F

Justin Dean Dinneen

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
I like it

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Me too.

The way we got a lot of enhancements in R19 was we all made top 10 lists. This list got condensed by the general consensus, and nearly all of our requests were implemented (at least I felt that I got most of the biggies that I wanted).

Lately, we've been throwing out a lot of requests- probably more than 50 since R19 came out..., and who knows if we'll see any of them in later releases as DS surely has a hard time deciphering which are the most important to us. They can't do them all, but 10 requests is probably reasonable? Maybe it's about time we all put together a NEW top 10 list and start a new post on the subject?

Then, we can submit a top 10 list to DS based on what items have the most requests, and they'll probably implement them....or at least some of them. Just a thought- don't mean to hijack...

Not sure inserting a ppinsert LOADTL to a linking macro would work, because the linking macro's are still used between contours with some MO's mid-cut (not just for a time-break).

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

Posted By BFELSHER on 04 Jan 2011 02:04 PM
Me too.

The way we got a lot of enhancements in R19 was we all made top 10 lists. This list got condensed by the general consensus, and nearly all of our requests were implemented (at least I felt that I got most of the biggies that I wanted).

I agree with Bryan.  Setting priorities way ahead of the COE conf is a good idea.

Lately, we've been throwing out a lot of requests- probably more than 50 since R19 came out..., and who knows if we'll see any of them in later releases as DS surely has a hard time deciphering which are the most important to us. They can't do them all, but 10 requests is probably reasonable? Maybe it's about time we all put together a NEW top 10 list and start a new post on the subject?

When I met Patrick at Orlando, 2008, I discussed this very issue. Patrick assured me that the are capable of, and do work on many many more then ten things.

We are all different. Some mostly alum, some mostly Ti, and SS. Some big gantries, some automatic tool changers. Some do +/- .010, some +/- .001 work. 

I think the survey the DPC did was great. more of something like that. I have all my ER's in a spread sheet,  so that could be distributed, with programmers putting 1-10 priorities on it. 

I said this in another thread, but a webinar spending 1-3 min on, each enhancment request, and then getting feedback on the forum is in my opinion a great way to go.  .... so:
 
1. Post ER's in a spread sheet
2. Run the webinar.
3. Get Feedback, on priorities, and implementation ideas.
4. Perhaps another webinar for discussion on specific topics
5. Everyone votes, 1-10 on priorities.


Then, we can submit a top 10 list to DS based on what items have the most requests, and they'll probably implement them....or at least some of them. Just a thought- don't mean to hijack...

Not sure inserting a ppinsert LOADTL to a linking macro would work, because the linking macro's are still used between contours with some MO's mid-cut (not just for a time-break).

Bryan, sorry if I was not clear. My thinking is a new seperate linking style macro, in addition to, not replacing the linking macro.

Now the tool change as apposed to a just adding a loadtl in a macro sequence.... sounds good, but it will require some creativity as to how it is displayed on the PPR tree. Not an easy thing, at least for me right now to suggest best method for the tree.

Ummm, I hate to bring this up, but it's tricky on 4-axis work. to rotate around for the tool change, and tool check. without MB, machine rotations, do not see machine kenematics.  I think we beat that to death 2 years ago, but it might be worth another look.

Best Regards,
Dave  Ho Ho Ho

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
So what's up? Let's get a good top 10 list together to turn in to DS and get some enhancements...I think a clear concise top 10 list would get us better results than the way we've been asking for hundreds of random ideas...let's get this going! We got what we wanted in R19...now what do we REALLY need?

I think this is a top 10...among true 90 degree head graphical support and ENGRAVING!!!

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

OK Bryan,

I hope you don't mind, but I posted my list, on the TOP Three must haves thread.

Trying to be somewhat organized, but you know, sometimes I thing reading makes the most sence if there was only ONE thread.
Ho Ho Ho....

Dave

Click Here for List

Roger Bombassei

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Has this been implemented?

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Hi Roger,

I assume you would love to have this in the CATIA we have today, or .... R21 is in a couple of days.......

I have not heard anything, but that does not mean we can not be supprised. Yes.... This is a very usable and important enhancment for the CATIA community. Lucky for me, I write my own posts, and did a lot of this in my ICAM post, but ... linking style macros, based on time in cut would be better.

Best Regards
Dave

Roger Bombassei

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Thanks for the reply Dave.  We are looking in to making the post do it but yes, it would be nice if CATIA could take care of it.

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Hi Roger,

If you need help with the post feel free to ask. I got it dialed in.

Best Regards
Dave

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
I would definitely like to see this in Catia. However, in the mean-time, I have a Fortran routine written by the master, Larry Jones, which does this very well. I use it all the time when cutting titanium and steel.

It will break up a program and insert whatever statements I want based on cut time. It has many options, fully configurable, and works great.

Still...it would be nice to do this directly in Catia.

Samarinder Singh

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Yeah I told him to write this a couple of years ago while I was quoting a 5 ton inconnel part. But after that he never made the enhancements to my posts even though I requested a quote for it. I am sorry it came out like this but it is a fact and recently my company never heard from him again for one of their customized post processor. However I agree that he is the best post writer I have ever met in my experience among others (Richard Justice, John Billings, a few post guys at Surfware, Icam,etc..) Paul Sturdavent is another genius and he helped me with acramatic950 control back in 99.

I have moved to ICAM and maybe in future I'll write my own post-processor just for fun.

Back to the topic.

This will be a great enhancement to Catia among others. And I can use it in all milling MOs since I have been programming very large parts nowadays.

m2c

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)



In Reply to Dave Frank:

ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.

 

Here is something I have done in my post, and would like to see it in CATIA:

Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.

 

Yes,  I can also break a tape : ( Post command BREAK) and I do, but where. Not in the middle of the cut, right???? !!!!!

 

As we know, both pocketing and surface kellering can output miles of nc-tape, or megs of .tap files, with a single MO.

 

Issue (1) Tool changes.

Base on in time cut, a maximum tool life is communicated to the post with a PPRINT ICAM MAXLIFE command. That sets a variable in the post and every GOTO command, the post looks to see if MAXLIFE is exceeded. When it is, it looks for the next fast feedrate, (assuming it is a retract), and then calls a macro that retracts, and stops to check the tool. The post stores the pointvector before pulling out, so it desired, the post can execute a LOADTL sequence, that does a tool check, and failsafe.

 

SO, for CATIA, if they Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut, with approach and retracts, this will allow seamless tool changes in these large sequences.

 

 

Issue (2) file size. 

Many controls, say a Siemens 840D, have 1-2 meg of memory, and almost infinite hard disc storage.

 

The problem is, the machine operator controls do not function the same, 

using hard disc storage, or memory. Memory is more robust. For searching, editing, etc.

 

The recommended way from Siemens, is to use more smaller programs, rather than one big one, and call them from a main program.

 

So,  for CATIA, if they Invoke linking style macros, based on file size, then again, the post can execute a LOADTL sequence, that does a tool check, and failsafe, and each of these tape segments.

 

Keeping in mind, that NC-Code, will be larger then the Aptsource, some factor will be needed to be in effect. One day, there may even be an integrated link with the post and this kind of feature, to break in the right spot, with some protection on the post generated retracts, for t-cutters and bell cutters, to not damage the part. But Invoke linking style macros should give to programmers some control.

 

If people are interested, I can put up some of the code to do this with Icam, but not now, I am super busy. I just stepped on a nail, and want to get this idea in.  (stepped on a nail is a figure of speech I use, when something happens that is a initiator, for an idea)

 

Any of this make sense to you folks?


Best regards

Dave

 




 

OK OK, here is one snippet.

 

This goes in global variables definition

 

DECLAR/GLOBAL,REAL,MAXLIFE $$ DEFAULT TOOL TIME BEFORE AUTOMATIC TOOL CHECK

$$ $$

DECLAR/GLOBAL,REAL,TIME4MAX $$ SET AT TC_SHUTDOWN FOR MAXLIFE

$$

$$

MAXLIFE=60*60*24 $$ 1 day           $$ DEFAULT MEASURED IN SECONDS, for $$                                                           no activation

 

 

 

PPrint macro to turn PPRINT ICAM MAXLIFE=90  into a numeric variable

$@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

$$!@#PPRINT/$P1'' PPRINT_01 Look for "PPRINT ICAM"

$@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

$$

PPRINT/$P1'' $$ =3= PPRINT_01 Look for "PPRINT ICAM"

$$

$$

IF/$FINDEX($P1,'ICAM').GT.0 $$ Look for "ICAM"

 

  L1=$FINDEX($P1,'MAXLIFEM=')+9 $$ Look for max. life

  IF/L1.GT.9

    MAXLIFE=$FATOF($FSUBST($P1,L1,$FLEN($P1)))*60 $$ Store max. life

    TERMAC

  ENDOF/IF

  ENDOF/IF

 

 

Hi Friends,

This was a top Ten I think.  

Should this be a top ten this year?  How important is this to you and why?

 

Thanks


Dave Frank  *    Bell Helicopter *  Grand Prairie Texas

Advanced Computer Aided Manufacturing Systems Engineer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control

 

Samarinder Singh

ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)
Hi Dave,

Anything is top ten especially when those important features are already present inside other competive software.  And this one could be really beneficial since we do lots of big parts in Catia.

The main challenge(e.g. when tool has to retract away/up from walls) is linking macros,  transition macros. Splitting tool motion is not. 


Regards,
Samarinder Singh

-------- Original message --------
From: Dave Frank <[login to unmask email]>
Date:
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [manufacturing] - RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.



In Reply to Dave Frank:

ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
 
Here is something I have done in my post, and would like to see it in CATIA:
Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
 
Yes,  I can also break a tape : ( Post command BREAK) and I do, but where. Not in the middle of the cut, right???? !!!!!
 
As we know, both pocketing and surface kellering can output miles of nc-tape, or megs of .tap files, with a single MO.
 
Issue (1) Tool changes.
Base on in time cut, a maximum tool life is communicated to the post with a PPRINT ICAM MAXLIFE command. That sets a variable in the post and every GOTO command, the post looks to see if MAXLIFE is exceeded. When it is, it looks for the next fast feedrate, (assuming it is a retract), and then calls a macro that retracts, and stops to check the tool. The post stores the pointvector before pulling out, so it desired, the post can execute a LOADTL sequence, that does a tool check, and failsafe.
 
SO, for CATIA, if they Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut, with approach and retracts, this will allow seamless tool changes in these large sequences.
 
 
Issue (2) file size. 
Many controls, say a Siemens 840D, have 1-2 meg of memory, and almost infinite hard disc storage.
 
The problem is, the machine operator controls do not function the same, 
using hard disc storage, or memory. Memory is more robust. For searching, editing, etc.
 
The recommended way from Siemens, is to use more smaller programs, rather than one big one, and call them from a main program.
 
So,  for CATIA, if they Invoke linking style macros, based on file size, then again, the post can execute a LOADTL sequence, that does a tool check, and failsafe, and each of these tape segments.
 
Keeping in mind, that NC-Code, will be larger then the Aptsource, some factor will be needed to be in effect. One day, there may even be an integrated link with the post and this kind of feature, to break in the right spot, with some protection on the post generated retracts, for t-cutters and bell cutters, to not damage the part. But Invoke linking style macros should give to programmers some control.
 
If people are interested, I can put up some of the code to do this with Icam, but not now, I am super busy. I just stepped on a nail, and want to get this idea in.  (stepped on a nail is a figure of speech I use, when something happens that is a initiator, for an idea)
 
Any of this make sense to you folks?

Best regards
Dave
 




 
OK OK, here is one snippet.
 
This goes in global variables definition
 
DECLAR/GLOBAL,REAL,MAXLIFE $$ DEFAULT TOOL TIME BEFORE AUTOMATIC TOOL CHECK
$$ $$
DECLAR/GLOBAL,REAL,TIME4MAX $$ SET AT TC_SHUTDOWN FOR MAXLIFE
$$
$$
MAXLIFE=60*60*24 $$ 1 day           $$ DEFAULT MEASURED IN SECONDS, for $$                                                           no activation
 
 
 
PPrint macro to turn PPRINT ICAM MAXLIFE=90  into a numeric variable
$@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
$$!@#PPRINT/$P1'' PPRINT_01 Look for "PPRINT ICAM"
$@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
$$
PPRINT/$P1'' $$ =3= PPRINT_01 Look for "PPRINT ICAM"
$$
$$
IF/$FINDEX($P1,'ICAM').GT.0 $$ Look for "ICAM"
 
  L1=$FINDEX($P1,'MAXLIFEM=')+9 $$ Look for max. life
  IF/L1.GT.9
    MAXLIFE=$FATOF($FSUBST($P1,L1,$FLEN($P1)))*60 $$ Store max. life
    TERMAC
  ENDOF/IF
  ENDOF/IF
 
 

Hi Friends,

This was a top Ten I think.  

Should this be a top ten this year?  How important is this to you and why?

 

Thanks


Dave Frank  *    Bell Helicopter *  Grand Prairie Texas

Advanced Computer Aided Manufacturing Systems Engineer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control

 


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Jim Barkelew

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

It's relatively easy to create a subroutine in the 840D that will monitor "tool life" minutes or pieces, however you want to look at it, and call the sub in a linking macro when the tool is clear of the part.  If life is OK, just continue.  If not, do a Z retract and do an M6 or whatever is needed.  Saving the current tool position and returning is "simple".

Jim Barkelew

COE Product DNC Co-Chair

NC Programmer, Principal

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Jim Barkelew)


An important part of the desired function, would be to allow the programmer to specify some preferences.

 

Such at defining a feed to look for so when the time is up, it breaks on an air cutting move.

How about a distance from the walls? So if you are cutting the walls, once the time is triggered... look for am move away from the wall, by a distance.  Make sence?

____________________________________________

Dave Frank  *    Bell Helicopter *  Grand Prairie Texas

Advanced Computer Aided Manufacturing Systems Engineer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control

 

Kenneth Duty

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

Last week I submitted an enhancement request to add Linking macros to to the Roughing MO.  Also would love to be able ot set a "time in material".  Certain processes don't want a cutter engaged in material more than a certain amount of time (then give operator ability to do a tool check".

 

What do you guys think?

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Kenneth Duty)


Hi Ken,

 

I think it is a top Ten.  Most folks I talk to say this is important to them. Most folks also are too busy to get in the forum.  Lets see..... how many programmers do you have at Spirit?  Did you get a concencus ?

 

Anyone else???   Now is the time to speak up!!!

 

Dave


Dave Frank  *    Bell Helicopter *  Grand Prairie Texas

Advanced Computer Aided Manufacturing Systems Engineer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control

 

Samarinder Singh

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

Dave,

We have discussed this topic before for splitting the tool-motion. Now I have no problem because I am using Icam to split the tool-path while posting the G-code but it is a bit challenging for the folks who don't have such capabilities in their post-processors. If NX did it 5 years ago then why is DS holding it back.

Regards,
Samarinder

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

NX could do this 5 years ago?  Well I hope our friends can get us caught up.

 

Tho post is a band aid. It does not work for all situations...

It should be in CATIA 

Gregory Mandrell

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)

I like the idea of CATIA doing this for us.  Some things to think about...

Retract from cut methodology, straight out along the tool axis, back out along tool path or ramp out...

Engage back into cut methodology...ditto

Automatic coolant control while doing the engages/retracts.

Engage/Retract feed rate override control during tool change motion

Time calculated from tool-in-contact with material time, no air cuts added to the calculations

Subroutine calls after the tool change for things like probing the new tool for length, for the guys that want to hand load a replacement tool so that they can reload the old tool with new inserts and have it ready for the next "20" minutes when their new tool stops for service.  If you're cutting tons of material away, five replacement tools may not be enough and buying that many backups may not be cost efficient.

 

 



Samarinder Singh

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Dave Frank)



In Reply to Dave Frank:

NX could do this 5 years ago?  Well I hope our friends can get us caught up.

 

Tho post is a band aid. It does not work for all situations...

It should be in CATIA 


Hi Dave,

Greg could tell you more about it.

Regards,
Samarinder

Dave Frank

RE: ER-2010-12-02+03 Invoke linking style macros, based on time in cut. And file size.
(in response to Bryan Carpio Felsher)



In Reply to Bryan Carpio Felsher:

Me too.

The way we got a lot of enhancements in R19 was we all made top 10 lists. This list got condensed by the general consensus, and nearly all of our requests were implemented (at least I felt that I got most of the biggies that I wanted).

 

Dave: I am not seeing much of anything with our top tens, in V5. All the goodies seem to be going into V6. As programmer, WE do not get to choose to go to V6.   So... how do we get what is really important in V5???

Lately, we've been throwing out a lot of requests- probably more than 50 since R19 came out..., and who knows if we'll see any of them in later releases as DS surely has a hard time deciphering which are the most important to us. They can't do them all, but 10 requests is probably reasonable? Maybe it's about time we all put together a NEW top 10 list and start a new post on the subject?

Dave: I used to think we could ask for anything. Now I know different. In 2014, I see we really need to pick and choose. Bryan is dead correct on this topic.

Then, we can submit a top 10 list to DS based on what items have the most requests, and they'll probably implement them....or at least some of them. Just a thought- don't mean to hijack...

Not sure inserting a ppinsert LOADTL to a linking macro would work, because the linking macro's are still used between contours with some MO's mid-cut (not just for a time-break).

 

Hijack / on.

Do we need to refine the Top Ten to Top Three???

Hijack / off

Dassault wants to know each year for the survey... where are you waisting the most time???

In roughing Titanium on a big part, breaking up motion for tool life, will make the task much longer. Now if CATIA could do it, that will save a lot of time.  What is most important is the linking..engage and disengage.. being able to arc off, or 90 degree off away from the part, insert a tool change ( or PPinstruction) , and re-enter the cut saftely.  Just going straight up and down won't work. If you are using a indexable inserted milling cutter, it will destroy the tool because of the deflection.

Another related issue is that there are 3 roughings, power machining, cavity, and roughing. We should have the good stuff, in one package. Cavity has the ability to have seperate thicks for bottom and side. Power has the ability to rough and finish while stepping down. So work is required.

To me.... If I could get one thing...... this enhancment is it.

Dave 


Dave Frank  *    Aerospace Dynamics International, Valencia, Ca

5-Axis CNC Programmer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control

 

Edited By:
Dave Frank[Dave Frank] @ Aug 20, 2014 - 09:23 AM (America/Pacific)