Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses

Dave Frank

Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses


I would like to see something, if it is possible for flexible hoses, tubes, etc that can get in the way.

Currently, I model a hose attached to the A, and another attached to the B. Crude but 80% effective. Not a super priority, but if it is easy to do ...... That's why we post here. Communicate Ideas.

Dave

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Dave,

I agree with this enhancement and many more until someone runs into the particular situation. I could use this in one of my programs where Spindle-head is getting a lot closer to the fixtures and coolant hoses are flexing when A-axis rotates. It varies from one side to another because A-axis rotary is roughly 3 inches offset in Y-axis while machine is at A0 C0. For example while A-axis rotates in +/- direction then these hoses flex roughly 8 inches and 6 inches depending on the direction. For now as a workaround I am going to model the worst case scenarios.


Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By tjs4689 on 14 Jan 2010 04:27 PM
A contextual part is any part that its shape is shaped or changed through contextual links to other parts. For example a Multi Branchable bundle segment and a bundle segment are contextual parts. Their spline definition is impacted by the clamps they run thru. During a simulation of a moving assembly (say a nose landing gear) the wire bundle segment or segments is or are supported by clamps that are mounts to several different parts of the assembly. To be able to see the updates to the segment or segments the contextual update needs to be active.

Hi Timothy,

I have few questions.

1. What license options are needed to model the contextual part for the simulation of the flexible hoses?

2. Will this option allow to see a fully dynamic simulation(in other words will it update the flexible shapes in real time while it is simulating the assembly or is it just static update of the contextual part)?

Thanks,
Samarinder

David Summerscales

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Very good suggestion Dave

I see one small problem - the length of the spline from position 1 to position 2/3/4/5/6 must be the same throughout and the length of a spline cannot be governed by a parameter

would be an awesome enhancement though

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Dave Summ

It seems from Timothy' comments that spline length can be controlled in EH workbenches. And you can always add extra mechanism to the kinematic model. But I am not sure if it will work with machine sim model.

Timothy John Suhr

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
For more information about contextual part I recommend you search the DS User Guide with the exact Phase of "Contextual Part". In Filebase, a contextual part can have its context instance or any level of the assembly.

contextual product - A product containing contextual parts whose contexts are located outside the product.

When a part needs definition from its surroundings (like a point from another part) it is a contextual part. Geometric Bundle Assembly is contextual product when the supports parts located outside of the Geometric Bundle Assembly (CATProduct or Component Assembly) a bundle segment within that Geometric Bundle Assembly but gets some of its shape data from the supports in another assembly is a contextual part.

External references branch of the part : external geometry (a face, a point or a line) is copied/imported from driving parts to contextual parts that are being driven (Design in context). You can customize External References as follows: select Tools > Options > Infrastructure > Part Infrastructure, click the General tab and check the Keep links with selected object option.

I hope this help you better understand the terms used. I recommend using the DS User Guides as they are getting better with each version of the software. In the past they where only programming references. Now they are how to. My hope is that DS will add more why and many more definitions to this helpful refernce...

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Hi Timothy,

Thanks for the explanation on the "contextual part". I use this a lot in my work for designing the holding fixtures.

The contextual part I use doesn't get updated dynamically. So it is useless inside the kinematic model for any machine simulator catproduct.

I guess I should have rephrased my questions.

Is there any option in any other workbench where this contextual part gets updated dynamically while being used inside the kinematic model.

Say you have a kinematic model for the landing gear and it has some flexible hoses/harness etc. How do these hoses simulate when going between positions such as landing, retracting, kneeling etc..?

If it really simulates the flexing of the hoses then what are the license options?

I am trying to collect as much information before I ask this from the VAR.

Thanks again.

Dave Frank

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Hi Timothy,

Yes, Thanks for the explanation on "contextual parts". your memory of this issue, may benefit us all in supplying the developers one answer.

And is is a good lesson for modeling as well

Best Regards
Dave

Dave Frank

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By SAMARINDER on 29 Aug 2011 04:11 PM
Dave,

I agree with this enhancement and many more until someone runs into the particular situation. I could use this in one of my programs where Spindle-head is getting a lot closer to the fixtures and coolant hoses are flexing when A-axis rotates. It varies from one side to another because A-axis rotary is roughly 3 inches offset in Y-axis while machine is at A0 C0. For example while A-axis rotates in +/- direction then these hoses flex roughly 8 inches and 6 inches depending on the direction. For now as a workaround I am going to model the worst case scenarios.




Hi Samarinder,

Thanks for agreeing. I usually post ER requests out of necessity, and experience and common sense.
 

Dave

PS I did not see the picture for some reason

Dave Frank

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By DAVE SUMM on 29 Aug 2011 07:56 PM
Very good suggestion Dave

I see one small problem - the length of the spline from position 1 to position 2/3/4/5/6 must be the same throughout and the length of a spline cannot be governed by a parameter

would be an awesome enhancement though

Hi Dave,

I want to thank you, ....  all that agreed that this is a necessary enhancement to get implemented sooner or later.

 

Remember what Patrick Touron stated. Tell us your difficulty. Suggestions for implementation are welcome, but the important information is the problem.

 

The problem is, there are collision possibilities that are not detectable with the CATIA we have today, because they are things like flexible hoses, and pipes, way covers, etc.

 

Another implementation would be just a series of solid, and a way to change angular constraints, in conjunction with some kind of formula or table for A&B positions IE if  a-5, angular constraint 1 = 1.75…. This would probably require additional mechanisms but DS may be adding additional mechanisms for the ER I submitted to have all 3 A-axis solids move the say way they do on the machine.

 

Issues today

 

Making oversize solids can lead to false alarms, false errors detections. The closest to simulation real life machines, the better the MS product will be.

 

I will drop an e-mail to the developer, and see if any progress is being made on this. And more important, if there is anything we can supply to make the job easier for Dassault. I did supply the DS team with MANY machine models.

 

  The developers do read this forum all the time, but like to wait until COE conferences to let us know in closed sessions, what the future will hold. 

 

Best Regards

Dave

Timothy John Suhr

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
The option setting you are looking for for dynamic update is called "" it is located in Tools > Options > Mechanical Design > Assembly Design > General tab > Update Section activate Automatic radio buttion.

However to have contentaul part update during a simulation an enviorment varible is required.  The enviorment varible and it related values you must get from DS through you VAR.

If it really simulates the flexing of the hoses then what are the license options? For hose I would talk with the VAR about the Tubing design workbench.

I understand that it uses the same or simmular code as the harnessing workbench that is a bundle segment for electrical.  With this a simulation of a harness moving when a landing gear is simulated is possible.

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Timothy,

Thanks again for the tip for the environment variable for dynamic update of the contextual part. I have already started a inquiry with my VAR.

Now as an enhancement if DS plugs these options in machine sim module, it would be really cool.

Randy Hitzeman

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)

If I remember correctly, this was brought up at one of the VUE events as an enhancement for Vericut.
I don't know what the status of this request is, or if they are working on it, but they seemed to acknowledge the need.

CGTech has gotten themselves involved rather heavily in the composite toe placement machine programming and simulation. Anyone who is familiar with these machines know that the heads are a cluster of hoses, wiring and actuators. I could see the need just for this application alone.



 

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Dave F,

I use Firefox browser and have no problem viewing the images. If you still don't see it then here is the zip file.


Attachments

  • FlexibleCoolantHoses1.zip (39.1k)

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Randy,

I missed the VUE this year but I have been told that latest Vericut has the ability to model Flexible hoses in their machine sim.

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Hi Timothy,

I just got a reply from my VAR and they don't have this environment variable in their knowledge database. They will try to contact DS for more info. I am pretty sure this will work for what I need during the "Check reachabiltiy" in toolpath replay and I believe it could work in machine sim as well.

Thanks,
Samarinder

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By SAMARINDER on 30 Aug 2011 12:35 PM
Randy,

I missed the VUE this year but I have been told that latest Vericut has the ability to model Flexible hoses in their machine sim.

Edit: No Vericut doesn't support flexible hoses. It was some wrong information given to me by the salesman.

Samarinder Singh

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Dave Frank)
Posted By tjs4689 on 30 Aug 2011 12:17 PM
The option setting you are looking for for dynamic update is called "" it is located in Tools > Options > Mechanical Design > Assembly Design > General tab > Update Section activate Automatic radio buttion.

However to have contentaul part update during a simulation an enviorment varible is required.  The enviorment varible and it related values you must get from DS through you VAR.

If it really simulates the flexing of the hoses then what are the license options? For hose I would talk with the VAR about the Tubing design workbench.

I understand that it uses the same or simmular code as the harnessing workbench that is a bundle segment for electrical.  With this a simulation of a harness moving when a landing gear is simulated is possible.
Hi Timothy,

I would appreciate if you give out this secret variable. My VAR doesn't have any individual who possesses the knowledge of this secret environment variable.

Also I asked it from my one of  DS contacts but he works in Manufacturing domain only so it would take him some time get this variable.

Thanks,
Samarinder

Dave Frank

RE: Enhancement 2010-MB-05 Flexible hoses
(in response to Samarinder Singh)


Hi All,

I want to thank Samarinder for reminding me of this important requirement.  Yes we talk on Sundays.... MFG never sleeps.....

As people in the industry move using ROBOTS for many things, being able to accurately (within reason) simulate Flexible hoses is important across MS and ROBOTIC workbenches.


Dave Frank  *    Bell Helicopter *  Grand Prairie Texas

Advanced Computer Aided Manufacturing Systems Engineer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control