Tool Database

Kevin Barker

Tool Database

What other Tool Database software is there? I have found only TDM and Wintool. Looking for Catia, Mastercam, NX, Vericut.

 

Samarinder Singh

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Kevin Barker)



In Reply to Kevin Barker:

What other Tool Database software is there? I have found only TDM and Wintool. Looking for Catia, Mastercam, NX, Vericut.

 


Hi Kevin,

I would make sure that such database software can generate the Catia's or other cam packages' internal tool-holder definition. If not then it is not useful at all for computing the toolpaths in machining workbench.

PS If DS releases an API to build holders then I can create an entire milling-tools database for all type of tools used in Catia which can be utilized with Vericut as well. And for tool-holders I have been using a workaround where I keep all the holders in a separate tool-catalog. It has been working OK for me for over the years. All DS has to do is implement my workaround into their code. I'll try to bring it up in Vegas.

Thanks,
Samarinder

Larry Call

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

Samarinder,

Have you tried using your tool catalogs in V6?

I'm not finding Enovia / Delmia / Catia cutter - holder management nearly as friendly as the V5 catalogs.

Maybe I just have to give it some time to get used to the new way of thinking...

Kinda feels like DS went backwards on tool management to be able to work in an object oriented database.

regards,

Larry @ Cessna

Samarinder Singh

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Larry Call)

Hi Larry,

No I have not installed V6 yet. I was reading the online docs and I found out that there is nothing much new for tools or tools-catalogs. Anyway I'll gather more info about it next week at COE.

PS Are you going to Vegas next week?

Regards,
Samarinder

Larry Call

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

Good day Samarinder,

Not in the plans to go to Vegas, and too much going on now to jump ship.

Hopefully some good presentations will come out of this show contrary to the allusion that what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas...

If you get a chance to tinker with a V6 process (PPRContext), note how the resources are managed.  I'd like to see what you think about the "catalog" of the future. 

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Larry Call)

Maybe off subject, but is it possible for someone using TDM to dump ALL tools and holders stored in TDM to a single Catia Catalog?

I have a customer that uses TDM, and since I DON'T have TDM, and want to use tools in my NC Program that they store in their TDM, what is the best way to make that link?

I was thinking if they could dump their TDM database into a Catia Tool Catalog and send to me, then I could pick my tools from that catalog, and be sync'd up with their TDM database.  Is my thinking way off?

Larry Call

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Bryan Carpio Felsher)

Bryan,

I'm looking for similar data access.  We have a mix of formats built up over time to support V5 including .csv files, V5 native catalogs, and TDM; all with currently used tools.  As I start supporting V6 cutting tools, it would be nice to be able to migrate en masse.  For the native V5 stuff, that's not working so well, so I'm building dummy CATProcesses with "tool changes only" to load groups of cutters, then migrating the CATProcess.  That may be a clunky but functional solution for the TDM tools and holders.  I've asked my I.T. support group and a few of the users for options and also searched the TDMsystems web site for something as simple as a .csv export option from TDM.  The closest I've found is an MS Excel report function that doesn't appear very useful...  One of my I.T. gals said she could write an application to strip out what I need from TDM, but it wouldn't happen in the near future due to her work load. 

I didn't think to ask about a more direct approach of TDM to V5 catalog, I might have to try that. 

later,

Larry

Edited By:
Larry Call[Cessna Aircraft] @ May 14, 2012 - 03:04 PM (America/Central)

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Larry Call)

Please let us know what you find out, Larry.

For now, I'm just going to make a good part and lay down toolpaths using tools from my own catalogs.  Sort out the TDM link later.

Jim Barkelew

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Bryan Carpio Felsher)

I forgot to reply on this.  I'm 99% sure that creating a V5 catalog from a TDM tool list is a few clicks.  My TDM link is not working right now so I can't verify it.

Samarinder Singh

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Jim Barkelew)
Hi,

I have seen some V6 demos and concluded that creating tools would be more time consuming in V6 than what you can do in V5. I am afraid to say that other cam packages have done a better job for tool-database, tool-libraries etc.

As I mentioned earlier that all I need some APIs to create holders, tools and then I can take care of this with my ideas. And releasing all the APIs for machining workbench was listed on top ten, so I hope I see them soon in the future service packs. I guess I have to start building the list of such APIs and send it to DS soon.

Attached are some images which include one for catalog. I made some tool catalogs for some brands such as haimer, command, etc and stored them separately as holder catalogs. I can grab any holder on the fly in my catprocess.

Since Catia doesn't show the preview graphics for holder so I had to devise a proper naming convention which I have been updating over the years in order to meet the latest requirements/ideas.

I tried to keep it simple and effective and I believe that my naming convention for the tools is pretty straight forward. Right now we cannot build a complete holder in V5 so I had to add a couple of attributes in the name such as holder-length and projection length (stick-out length) So user can grab the appropriate holder for the desired or close to desired values. Since NC-programmer determines the proper stick-out based upon the tool motion so he can modify this value. But I have some other ideas for it.

Anyway I don't create duplicate holders for various stick-outs but it can be done but chances are you'll get slow query-results from the catalogs.

HSK63-EM.500 x 6.30-Long_1.75-PL will come in as 1.75in stick-out value for "Gage 1" parameter. If user needs 1.50in or 2.00in or whatever then it requires a few clicks to modify the tool-assembly in the resources.

Similarly I have other holders defined with extensions.

HSK63-EM.750 x 2.95-L x EXT-ID.250 x 5.00-L_1.25-PL

It is a 2.95 long holder for .750-dia-shank and it has a 5.00-long extension holder for .250-dia-shank. Again user can modify all the parameters if needed.

There is one downside of this V5 holder workaround. You can't simply change the holder if you decide to do after creating tool-motion. Then you would have to delete the tool and start all over and apply/replace new tool-assy for the related MOs. But if you have VB routines then it is not a problem at all.

Once DS releases the API to create holder then it would save a lot of time. Because right now it takes a good amount of time to create holder catalog. From DXF file to V5 holder-definition requires lots of interaction.

Also you are limited to 5 stages and you can't create a true shape (as you can see in the dxf file image) because holder has arcs in the profile and in the holder-definition there is no choice of creating arcs(convex or concave). In this case it is not bad at all but there are some holder profile shapes where chordal deviation can be much higher and tool can stay too far away unnecessarily for the gouge-check calculations while computing the tool-paths. This could affect adversely if you are programing close to the travel limits of the machine.

Thanks,
Samarinder
Attachments

  • V5_Holder_Catalog.pptx (414.2k)
Edited By:
Samarinder Singh[CUTPATH] @ May 24, 2012 - 06:28 PM (America/Pacific)

Bryan Carpio Felsher

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

Agreed, and nice workaround Samarinder.  I simply don't save holders in catalogs, and build them on the fly.  Since, in Catia, I only check the extension, the holder, and the head (total gage), I can build them quick on the fly, and don't have any of the bugs regarding naming and editing tools, plus a massive, slow tool catalog. 

One of the best solutions using only Catia (no TDM, etc...), that I've seen is from one of my customers that uses USER REP's for ALL TOOLS.  Their user reps are all parameterized, and were created using VB Scripting.  The Catia catalog links to the user reps are also created using the same VB Script.  There is also a parameterized Catia drawing linked to each user rep.  Modify the user rep, drawing updates, Catia process updates, etc...all scripted.  The advantage, is a true representation of all the cutters and holders in backplot and video replay, and they also use a script to create their runbook.  The runbook pulls the Catia drawings into it for each tool.

They also have a Vericut interface that sends the true user rep to Vericut to create the tools.  Everything looks really nice.  I imagine it took a LOT of forethought, and time to create their method, but it's pretty slick.

Samarinder Singh

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Bryan Carpio Felsher)
Hi, Any word from DS?

Thanks,

Samarinder

Samarinder Singh

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

Hi,

I would like to know if TDM makes an holder (2-5 stage holder) under ResourcesList in the milling workbench?

Thanks,
Samarinder

Jim Barkelew

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

TDM can create the 5 stages including cones if needed.

Jim

Samarinder Singh

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Jim Barkelew)



In Reply to Jim Barkelew:

TDM can create the 5 stages including cones if needed.

Jim


Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I am developing a tool-database for AM2 workbench. And it will be at a fraction of the cost of TDM. I am trying to address the need of small businesses/users who can't afford 10K for a single Catia and 7K for Vericut interface and who knows how much they charge for the tool-crib interface.

My Idea is to create one master tool-catalog for all type of milling cutters available in Catia. Also it can serve multiple cam packages other than Catia.

Basically what I am doing could have been done by someone at DS. They can do it much better because they can seamlessly integrate into their code. Whereas I have to put lots of time/efforts in order to do the same.

Regards,
Samarinder

Dave Frank

RE: Tool Database
(in response to Kevin Barker)



In Reply to Kevin Barker:

What other Tool Database software is there? I have found only TDM and Wintool. Looking for Catia, Mastercam, NX, Vericut.

 


Hi Kevin,


Check out Zoller.

http://www.zoller.info/usa/home

http://www.cgtech.com/cgtech-announces-direct-interface-zoller-tms-tool-management-solutions/

Dave


Dave Frank  *    Bell Helicopter *  Grand Prairie Texas

Advanced Computer Aided Manufacturing Systems Engineer

COE Product Co-Chairman, Digital Numerical Control