From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience

Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal

From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience

Hello,

My company is evaluating the possible move from CATIA V5 to 3d Experience. I would like to know how painful it was to make that move for all of you.

Besides the plm, how it was, to get used to the new CATIA interface? Is there any new functionalities compared to V5?

Has the number of mouse clicks been reduced?

Is there the need of rewrite all macros?

How did the team get used to "the new" CATIA?

And by the way, the license price has reduced compared to V5?

 

Thanks

Xavier Klein

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

Good Topic, i Wonder why nobody already reply

My manager also ask me "Why do you not plane to change CATIA V5"

sure CATIA V5 , is more than 13 years old in the Company , but with V5 we can do the job quiet efficiently

i do not have any lacks with any functionality, that will be available only with "3D Experience"

so i am waiting for enthusiastic end-user to share their own experience ,

to have on othe rpoint of view than Dassault Systems to share "3D Experience" vision

Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Xavier Klein)

I agree with you. I would like to hear the experience for moving from V5 to 3D experience. What benifits have it bring with him?

Nathan Shipley

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

I would recommend attending the COE conference.  There have been a number of presentations related to companies migrating to the 3DEXPERIENCE platform.  At WSU, we are in the process of migrating all of our V5 training material to 3DX and have begun providing both Academic and Industry based training classes.  

Nathan Shipley

Assistant Director, CAD/CAM Laboratory

National Institute for Aviation Research

Wichita State University

Phone: 316-978-7260 or (800) 642-7978

Fax: 316-978-3416

E-Mail: [login to unmask email]

Website: www.cadcamlab.org

Samarinder Singh

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

In Reply to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal:

 

Hello,

Below are my comments for some of your questions.

Besides the plm, how it was, to get used to the new CATIA interface? Is there any new functionalities compared to V5?

The new interface definitely looks good. But it could still use some improvements. KBE workbenches have more functionality and 3D Experience is definitely better than V5. At Bell, I designed a UDF for MS33649 ports which are very commonly designed features in hydraulic components. It came out really nice where designers can create any port-hole with only two inputs: point and line.

Has the number of mouse clicks been reduced?

No, not at all. Moreover, in the NC machining workbenches, the new interface requires more mouse travel when compared with V5. And it could be very counterproductive for big companies.

Is there the need of rewrite all macros?

Yes. I am very disappointed and it is the main reason I have not upgraded my V5 yet. The software is pretty much useless when it comes to writing automation for the machining workbenches. Not only do you need to rewrite all of your macros, but there are whole lots of vb APIs missing when compared to V5. Same thing for the design workbenches. At Bell, I had to use windows APIs in V6 for things which can be done so easily in V5. And 3D Experience is no different, it is still missing a whole lot of APIs.

Even after you design some user features, like MS33649 using UDF as I mentioned above, you can't do much automation in the machining workbench. In V5, you can really utilize such features in the vb for machining. For example, you can make toolpath for 100s of pockets efficiently. For MS33649 or any similar ports, you have to create quite a few toolpaths using multiple tools. All can be done in V5 using VB. But it is not the case in 3D Experience.

How did the team get used to "the new" CATIA?

This is usually not a problem for professionals.

And by the way, the license price has reduced compared to V5?

Yes and No. There is a catch and you could end up paying more than what you pay in V5.

Regards,
Samarinder Singh

Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

Many thanks by your reply. Quite complete answer that you gave me. It looks that you use CATIA a lot for NC machining. I use only for design.

So macro in 3dX lack a lot compared to V5. That's not an improvement... Have anyone asked to a var or even to Dassault why? Are they still working on it?

I use visual studio to create my macros, will it be able to do it in visual studio for 3dx?

About the mouse clicks, you say that you need more mouse travel for NC machining. And what about part design and generative shape design?

I will probably in the next few weeks, ask my VAR for a demo and a try out. I need to make sure that 3dx makes my expectations before I decided to switch.

Samarinder Singh

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

Hi,

You are welcome. Yes, I use Catia for Design and NC a lot. And NC folks have to cover a greater turf especially in small companies where they do tool-design, surface modeling, reverse engineering from old hand made drawings along with using loft data. I have been doing all that since 99. The first Catia I used was V5R2. And for the last 10 years I have been using some automation stuff with KBE and catvba, Vb.net and WIN APIs which is sometimes a real pain because WIN APIs don't always work from one machine to another.

I believe more mouse travel is definitely a problem with new UI and it affects when you cannot customize a few things such as custom toolbars with your favorite commands in them. Toolbars are gone and replaced with the Action Pad. It is like opening a separate window where you keep all of your custom commands. And this Action Pad will grow bigger and it will look like the Icons Browser window and you have to have one for each workbench.

So each time you execute your custom command, you need to go into Action Pad window and then you'll notice unnecessary mouse travel. I don't know what they were thinking when they took out custom toolbars. Also they put a ribbon bar at the bottom of the screen with all commands and you'll keep scrolling it until you'll see your command.Though it looks cool like you scroll thru a list of movies/shows in Netflix. But once you select a movie or any show you don't go back to that darn list for another hour or so. And it is not a case in our CADCAM world.

But for me APIs are more important because you can avoid lots of UI problems since you are doing most of your stuff with automation.

Regards,
Samarinder Singh
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Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Samarinder Singh)

I appreciate much your input. You are working a long in V5, i'm just a child near you :) I've started in V5 at almost 4 years ago, But i've worked before with NX and SolidWorks.

But let me go back to macros again. You said before that macros have loose some of the functionality? Is there any reason for that? If that is true and if in the next releases they won't fix it, I will keep the old V5, that can give me a lot!

 

Thanks 

Nitin Dnyaneshwar Dhage, Dhage

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

Hi,

Many things have been already covered by Samarinder, thanks, Samarinder.

I have been working in Data migration project (legacy apps; Teamcenter, CATIA V5, Inventor, factory CAD, AutoCAD etc and many more to 3DEXp) as solution architect / PLM Cosultant for one of the major automotive giant. With res. to your points below is my view on the same:

1. My company is evaluating the possible move from CATIA V5 to 3d Experience. I would like to know how painful it was to make that move for all of you.

- Of course, migration & change is always painful :). However, if you consider the number of applications and their compatibility with each other like TC to CATIA - Inventor - AutoCAD and gettings its EBOM - CAD Structure etc. - 3DExp is the best solution where there are no issues with compatibility.
However, migration is the big challenge.

2. besides the plm, how it was, to get used to the new CATIA interface? Is there any new functionalities compared to V5?
- New User Interface (UI), at the start users, will not love it. However once they hands on I don't think they will face any difficulty. Of course, i have many benefits considered to PLM and not much considering CATIA functionalities. But trust me, currently, I'm involved in one of file-based project, where CATIA V5 + data is managed locally. And it is really difficult.
I prefer to work on 3DExp only.

3. Has the number of mouse clicks been reduced?
- No, Consiodering CATIA functionalities, most of the things are same. However, there are few advancement which may reduce your click like - Creating text in a sketch. etc.

4. Is there the need of rewrite all macros?

- Of course yes.. However rather than re-write, I would like to mention as migration. You have to migrate V5 macros to 3DExp.. where your local data model & search etc will change to PLM data model & search. As the many functionalities are same, you don't need to change everything.

5. How did the team get used to "the new" CATIA?
- I'm not a designer so may not share that experience, however, I asked few users from our company, where they were using V5 for Aerospace and Automotive - BIW project and they said initially it was bit difficult but now they are loving it. And they said there is no change it V5 & 3DExp considering designing experience.


I hope this will help you :)

Regards, Nitin

Rolando Garza

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

Just to be clear, you are asking about "Catia V5" vs "Catia for 3DX". The move to the 3DX Platform can be confusing at first so I'm offering this as an aid to help you sort it out.

The 3DX Platform allows applications to communicate with each other. (kinda like the way MS Office allows all its apps to communicate with each other.) In the 3DX Platform you have "Catia for 3DX" and you have other applications like Enovia, 3DSwym, 3DSearch, 3DPlay, etc.... {Some people refer to Catia for 3DX as "Catia V6". While they are both V6 generation tools, only Catia for 3DX is 3DX Platform offering. I don't think the old Catia V6 is available for purchase but is still supported.} None of this invalidates the opinions shared above but I wanted to be sure we all understand the difference.

We are about to move to 3DX but staying on Catia V5.

We will stay in Catia V5 and handle Routes, PDM, and BOM in 3DX. (replacing SmarTeam with Enovia for 3DX.) We expect a lot from its search capabilities.

I've played quite a bit with Catia for 3DX. The interface takes a little while to get used to. I even turned the Power Input box back ON. But its not too bad. It's like learning the ribbons back when MS Office went to them. But I really like being able to launch commands directly from the elements I want to apply the command onto. I no longer need to move the mouse to the side of the screen to fillet an edge, for example. The command appears right next to the cursor when i select the edge. Another example: click on a line in a Sketch and available commands for that line appear next to the cursor.

As for new functionalities, yes, there are lots. Look into the fastener solution, for example. There was a presentation on it at the last COE in Sand Diego. Download it and check it out.

So, were the number of clicks reduced?.....it really depends on how you were using the tool to begin with. But i do think mouse travel is reduced.

Licensing is going to be a headache. You need to define who will need access to your information and what level of access they will need. 3DX capabilities are now licensed by Roles - not modules. These Roles tend to have a lot of functionality in them. So, you might be able to get all your designers onto a single role instead of buying sets of modules. Spend a lot of time with your vendor looking into the capabilities of the Roles. (to make matters more complicated, a person can have multiple Roles assigned to them.) You'll need to create your own ROI study to really reach an answer as it pertains to your company.

Something else you should really put some time into: a migration plan.

Do you plan to migrate your data from your current PDM into Enovia for 3DX?

 


 

 

Edited By:
Rolando Garza[Teco-Westinghouse] @ Apr 23, 2018 - 05:28 PM (America/Central)

Jim Strawn

From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Rolando Garza)
Very well said.

Get Outlook for iOS https://aka.ms/o0ukef
________________________________
From: Rolando Garza <[login to unmask email]>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 5:25:14 PM
To: [login to unmask email]
Subject: [3DEXPERIENCE Forum] - RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience


Just to be clear, you are asking about "Catia V5" vs "Catia for 3DX". The move to the 3DX Platform can be confusing at first so I'm offering this as an aid to help you sort it out.

The 3DX Platform allows applications to communicate with each other. (kinda like the way MS Office allows all its apps to communicate with each other.) In the 3DX Platform you have "Catia for 3DX" and you have other applications like "Enovia", 3DSwym, 3DSearch, 3DPLay, etc.... {Some people refer to Catia for 3DX as "Catia V6". While it is a V6 generation tool, there does exist a Catia V6 that is not a 3DX Platform offering.} None of this invalidates the opinions shared above but I wanted to be sure we all understand the difference.

We are about to move to 3DX but staying on Catia V5.

We will stay in Catia V5 and handle Routes, PDM, and BOM in 3DX. (replacing SmarTeam with Enovia for 3DX.) We expect a lot from its search capabilities.

I've played quite a bit with Catia for 3DX. The interface takes a little while to get used to. I even turned the Power Input box back ON. But its not too bad. It's like learning the ribbons back when MS Office went to them. But I really like being able to launch commands directly from the elements I want to apply the command onto. I no longer need to move the mouse to the side of the screen to fillet an edge, for example. The command appears right next to the cursor when i select the edge. Another example: click on a line in a Sketch and available commands for that line appear next to the cursor.

As for new functionalities, yes, there are lots. Look into the fastener solution, for example. There was a presentation on it at the last COE in Sand Diego. Download it and check it out.

So, were the number of clicks reduced?.....it really depends on how you were using the tool to begin with. But i do think mouse travel is reduced.

Licensing is going to be a headache. You need to define who will need access to your information and what level of access they will need. 3DX capabilities are now licensed by Roles - not modules. These Roles tend to have a lot of functionality in them. So, you might be able to get all your designers onto a single role instead of buying sets of modules. Spend a lot of time with your vendor looking into the capabilities of the Roles. (to make matters more complicated, a person can have multiple Roles assigned to them.) You'll need to create your own ROI study to really reach an answer as it pertains to your company.

Something else you should really put some time into: a migration plan.

Do you plan to migrate your data from your current PDM into Enovia for 3DX?



________________________________





-----End Original Message-----

Werner Johann Angeringer

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Rolando Garza)

Hello,

does anybody have experience with migrating/converting data from V5 to 3Dx?

How does it work?

Is there a integrated tool in 3DX?

Thank you

Rolando Garza

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Werner Johann Angeringer)

We're going through it now.

Again: V5 is a CAD tool 3DX is not. I'm going to assume you would like some information on how to get your V5 CAD files from your current PDM tool into 3DX.

Here are some tings you need to look into:

Which 3DX are you talking about? Designer Central or Powerd'By? DS has developed a tools but you need to speak to your vendor as to which 3DX you plan to implement. That will determine which tool they use. 

What do you plan to migrate?.... 2D? 2D with links to 3D? non-CAD data? non-CAD data with links to 2D or 3D?

Is your data clean? Broken links will stall the tool.

For CAD, which CAD system's files will you be migrating into 3DX? (is it just Catia files?) {If you have SolidWorks files, speak to your vendor about the current limitations of Powerd'By for SolidWorks.}

Assuming you are using Catia, will you be staying at V5 or moving up to "Catia for 3DX"? ("Catia for 3DX" is the V6 generation App.) If you plan to upgrade, the migration tool should make the conversion for you if you go with Powerd'By.

NOTE: Migration is a process - not a tool. Do not expect to be able to run some piece of code that places your CAD (and non-CAD) into 3DX without it being configured to match your implementation of 3DX. It is not as simple as moving files from one folder to another.


 

Catia V5-62012; SmarTeam V5-6R2012; 3DVIA Composer V62013x 

 

Werner Johann Angeringer

From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Rolando Garza)
Hi Rolando,
thank you very much for your response. Very interesting. So, I am just one
person on a huge team to support the effort.
We are just starting. Our IT department decided to go with 3Dx. We have the
largest database you can expect. SI am just researching to get some
information and to find people who go through this endeavor as well. Looks
I found someone. ;-)
Your first question:
*Which 3DX are you talking about? Designer Central or Powerd'By?* I am not
sure. Our IT decided to go with DS for whole Engineering as one
package.(If this helps)
*What do you plan to migrate?* Everything. The majority of our data is V5,
but we have a lot of different files like IGES, STEP, embedded V4 data
etc...
*Is your data clean? * NO; I work in the support department and I see all
kind of broken links etc...
*For CAD, which CAD system's files will you be migrating into 3DX? *Not
only CAD files, but a lot of META data and attributes etc...

*Assuming you are using Catia, will you be staying at V5 or moving up to
"Catia for 3DX"?* CATIA for 3DX
*NOTE: Migration is a process - not a tool. Do not expect to be able to run
some piece of code that places your CAD (and non-CAD) into 3DX without it
being configured to match your implementation of 3DX. It is not as simple
as moving files from one folder to another*.
This is why I put this question out there. Our IT will or is in the process
of writing programs for migration, but we know it is not as easy as it
sounds. if there will be a program, I am sure there will be a lot of
quality checks, corrections updates etc...And YES IT IS A PROCESS and a
huge project.
I hope we can stay in contact and exchange experiences.
Werner Angeringer


On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 7:05 AM Rolando Garza <[login to unmask email]>
wrote:

> We're going through it now.
>
> Again: V5 is a CAD tool 3DX is not. I'm going to assume you would like
> some information on how to get your V5 CAD files from your current PDM tool
> into 3DX.
>
> Here are some tings you need to look into:
>
> Which 3DX are you talking about? Designer Central or Powerd'By? DS has
> developed a tools but you need to speak to your vendor as to which 3DX you
> plan to implement. That will determine which tool they use.
>
> What do you plan to migrate?.... 2D? 2D with links to 3D? non-CAD data?
> non-CAD data with links to 2D or 3D?
>
> Is your data clean? Broken links will stall the tool.
>
> For CAD, which CAD system's files will you be migrating into 3DX? (is it
> just Catia files?) {If you have SolidWorks files, speak to your vendor
> about the current limitations of Powerd'By for SolidWorks.}
>
> Assuming you are using Catia, will you be staying at V5 or moving up to
> "Catia for 3DX"? ("Catia for 3DX" is the V6 generation App.) If you plan to
> upgrade, the migration tool should make the conversion for you if you go
> with Powerd'By.
>
> NOTE: Migration is a process - not a tool. Do not expect to be able to run
> some piece of code that places your CAD (and non-CAD) into 3DX without it
> being configured to match your implementation of 3DX. It is not as simple
> as moving files from one folder to another.
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Catia V5-62012; SmarTeam V5-6R2012; 3DVIA Composer V62013x
>
>
>
> -----End Original Message-----
>

Rolando Garza

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Werner Johann Angeringer)

In an effort to minimize the amount of code your own team writes, contact your vendor and ask then about the EDAT tool.

 


Catia V5-62012; SmarTeam V5-6R2012; 3DVIA Composer V62013x 

 

Timothy John Suhr

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Werner Johann Angeringer)

Good news is the under lying modeling kernel of V5 is still there! Meaning that migration will be the main focus not conversion. Electrical has had elements in all main brands CATIA, ENOVIA, DELMIA from very early in V5 development. 3DEXPERIENCE Platform extends this further both directions. RFLP (Requirements, allocated to Functional, Logical and Physical). So as 3DEXPERIENCE matures and DS declares V6 Brands no longer in active development as is the case with V5, we will see greater divide between V5, V6, and 3DEXPERIENCE functionalities.

There are two basic ways of migrating the data from V5 to 3D - FBDI (File-based Design Import) and DBDI (Database Design Import). both have advantages and disadvantages. Both have limitations as well. If your company is not a V5 ENOVIA LCA user or do not have a lot of models then FBDI may be the way for you. COE-U has shown the FBDI at the conference. I would invite you to attend at your next opportunity.

FBDI which allow content migration from V5 to 3DEXPERIENCE.

DBDI you can:

  • Import V4 and V5 data from legacy databases into a 3DEXPERIENCE platform.
  • Import V4 and V5 data from external databases into a 3DEXPERIENCE platform.
  • Import exposed design data from VPM legacy databases into a 3DEXPERIENCE platform.
  • Use the resulting content as native 3DEXPERIENCE content after migration.

More about RFLP - This approach is called RFLP, it is based on Requirements, allocated to Functional, Logical and Physical architecture components. Systems and a system of systems involves a combination of many disciplines that are interacting during the engineering process. The difficulty is to manage these concurrent multidisciplinary processes to provide a product that meets the requirements and the customer's needs. Dassault Systèmes approach for system engineering is mainly a top-down process starting from the stakeholder's needs to a system design and implementation.

Timothy J. Suhr

Electro-Mechanical Engineering (EME) Product Committee Co-Chair

2015 COE BJ Fries Award of Merit Recipient

LinkedIn Profile

Rolando Garza

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Werner Johann Angeringer)

When selecting which flavor of 3DX you want (Designer Central or Powerd'By), there are a few considerations.
For example, it's pretty clear that Powerd'By is DS's vision of the future. For example, the BOM tool uses the UPS. This means there is no longer a need to do a eBOM sync between the CAD and the bill.

But one detail that might go over looked is that Powerd'By does not support minor revisions. It may support it at previous releases of the tool but the documentation in 2018x states that it is not present. If your users rely on minor revisions, you should factor this into your talks.

Some folks like to use minor revisions to create various design considerations. If you are moving to Catia for 3DX, there is a tool that does this so minor revision do not need to be used in this way any more.

 

 


Catia V5-62012; SmarTeam V5-6R2012; 3DVIA Composer V62013x 

 

Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Rolando Garza)

Hello,

 

I'm making a trial of SMWX role.

Regarding the package, it's a good offer by it's price (CATIA it's not that costly software with this offer).

The CAD interface, really nice looking, refreshing, but havier, compared to V5.

There is a lot of questions, regarding the plm. It's my first iteration with a plm. It's hard to get used! There is always a different app for something.

Anyone know how to create the parameters, for create a BOM? In V5 in part properties, we configure them. But in 3d Experience, i have no clue idea where it is...

I have made a macro record in part design, and looks ok. But in assembly design it always appears the same recording, for different actions...

Sub CATMain()

Dim settingControllers1 As SettingControllers
Set settingControllers1 = CATIA.SettingControllers

Dim settingRepository1 As SettingRepository
Set settingRepository1 = settingControllers1.Item("LPCommonEditor")

boolean1 = settingRepository1.GetAttr("DisplayRequirementsMode")

boolean2 = settingRepository1.GetAttr("DisplayRequirementsMode")

boolean3 = settingRepository1.GetAttr("DisplayRequirementsMode")

boolean4 = settingRepository1.GetAttr("DisplayRequirementsMode")

End Sub 

Any idea, of what's happening?

I would like to see a demo of creating the part properties for BOM generation, and the bom generation. Anyone have seen something?

Regards

Tiago

ROGER LOUTON

RE: From CATIA V5 to CATIA 3d Experience
(in response to Tiago Figueiredo, MCG Portugal)

I am currently using V6, since Feb 18, and V5, since 2005. Less mouse clicks in V6? Oh yes, activating the "Robot Mode" from the Contextual Toolbar means no more searching for that function you want to use, it has figured out what you want to do next. Select on a Sketch, it places the Robot (it used to be called Axis) on the sketch, pull on one of the arrows, and it's making you a pad, all without you first having to go to the Pad function! Fillets are simple, copying features is a breeze. Once you start using it, you realize how far behind the times V5 is compared to V6, and even Solidworks. These are my opinions, but once you get properly trained, AND obtain access to numerous videos in the 3DX Companion website, you will love it. Is it perfect? No, but a vast improvement over V5.